/wiki/ - Leftypol Wiki

I don't have the knowledge necessary to write in-depth articles by myself, I've read a lot compared to most people but while I have a consistent grasp of mostly everything, I'd like to have other pairs of eyes making sure nothing stupid gets written.
I'm sure you understand what I mean. I intend to keep control over the project and I'm not one for compromise (I'm already considering how to get a proper hosting solution so we don't have to rely on proprietary tech at all and probably even higher scope initiatives like open sourcing the whole hosting service to make it like something that is based on mirrors that really cannot all be taken down except physically.
So yes, I think we should go for it.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable, you can even make a template for it, the wiki framework is very powerful.

Do you have twitter? How do we talk to you?

You can contact me at [email protected]/* */ (no kidding)
Encrypt and sign your emails. Here is my public key.
pastebin.com/4y8jpGbN

can be fun, if you need help
[email protected]/* */ (yep)

I'll need your key for that.

When it's free, you're the product, dipshit.

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Yes? That's why I'm saying we're gonna move to a self-contained solution as soon as possible.

ay need a logo

Quads confirm

I can only oblige. However I think logo changes have to go through their own channels.

Well, I asked more because I hear about Wiki-type projects all the time in left-wing circles (including here) and I like to keep track of the people who want to create them but lack the means, because if they all fail maybe one day we can come together and start one as a team. So if this project doesn't take off and you ever make a Twitter, follow me, I'm @saintjustist.

And if you manage to make it work I might contribute with some history entries later.

Done but we might as well just use Mastodon instead of proprietary services that directly belong to you know who.

i will send it to you when i finish work,

make sure it has plenty of security so it doesnt get raided or anything

This will end badly unless it takes an ideological line. You can't have anarchists, tankies, leftcoms, and socdems editing the same articles.

that makes it more fun tho

Having a wiki is a great idea! Using it like you have described on the front page is very lame though. All the wikis of those communities that you have mentioned use their wikis to organize their materials for the community, not the outsiders. Instead of turning it into a shitty propaganda piece we should have a wiki where we can organize our reading lists, preserve board history and write guides to whatever the fuck we want.

Also, this is required reading for everyone who wants to use wikis that's not wikipedia:
wiki.c2.com/?WikiIsNotWikipedia

See, I'm just asking for tips like these from people from the board who can tell me how to avoid ending up making watered-down garbage. A history of the board à la Encyclopedia Dramatica or Something Awful is a good thing IMO.

So uh what would it include? Stuff related to leftism or shit about the board like board history, attention whores, etc.?

Just something meant to redpill people as much as possible from their own accord (hence the idea of a wiki compared to a video).
Board history/culture should ideally be integrated in the whole structure. For instance you could have a page explaining who Stirner is and you'd have a section explaining clearly why people talk about spooks all the time etc. etc.

Last year, we had a discussion about a lefty dictionary and I did save some definitions. Will make a couple short entries soon.

Definitions are very important too. Hardly anyone in the US can tell the difference between social-democracy/socialism/democratic socialism and socialist democracy. Having a commonly agreed upon definition makes sure we don't end up disagreeing for no reason. I think we should dedicate an entire template for definitions like these.

we can and should, posing as some singleminded monolith was old even a hundred years ago when it first ruined everything that was good about revolution

OK, I was worried it would just be board meta. That kind of comprehensiveness is good shit.

I think we should keep a lot of perspectives in, but eventually we'll be faced two questions: 1. How to include them all at once and 2. which ones to include at all.

Let's say, for example, the State. Perspectives on what it is, how it came into being and how to fight it are several even within the Marxist tradition, and that tradition itself is at odds with what an Anarchist or a Social-Democrat would say. So do we make a chapter for each significant thinker? For each tradition, or what?

Lmao Holla Forums is never going to agree to one single definition of socialism that isn't completely ambiguous.

Academics do, though? Political theory isn't an art, take it seriously. I think we'll have to agree on words' meanings. However, we just need to make sure words are unambiguous.

I might be completely retarded but what definition of socialism do academics use?

Isn't the definition of socialism just broadly where the workers control the means of production?

The conscious will to shift from private ownership of the means of production to collective forms of ownership.

So? Isn't it something we can all agree on?

I would hope so.

Change "the means of production" to "production" or "the economy". If you just have control of the MoP but produce for exchange in a market you're at most transitioning toward socialism.

By that definition, if every enterprise was converted into a co-op, we would have socialism. A Marxist (especially a leftcom) would disagree with that conclusion and would therefore prefer some other definition.

Personally, I think the "collective ownership of the means of production" is the best definition. I'm just saying you're not going to make everyone happy, no matter which definition you go with.

Well obviously uneducated plebs like me wouldn't write the definitions, lmao.

Sorry I'll go read a book now

Unfortunately we're too small to have votes / debates on the definitions. Even though that's the communist way

That's the point of a good wiki though. Get people to your cause because educated people understand they all really just want the same thing or disagree because of poor phrasing. Education is the by far the most effective way to kill the porky since it directly produces class consciousness according to an exponential growth model (1 person talks to 3 then 2 of them talk to 2 etc etc).
The most revolutionary action there could be would be collectivizing the means of producing thought.

…the change I suggested would make the definition both less technical (noob friendly) and more technically correct. "The workers control production" is not hard to grasp and doesn't include any jargon.

Latest news :

This wiki is called leftypol.miraheze.org and they deleted the article about the number one innovation in radical theory that is due to Holla Forums!

Guess the word.

Is it time to split?

leftypol.miraheze.org/wiki/Social_Democracy
What do you think of it

No. Just kidding.

what did he mean by this

I really don't wanna have articles talking about "classcucks". I don't want this wiki to be a possible source for second-hand embarassment.

And who are you imagining looking down at you for saying a bad word like that one?

Parents? Teachers? People of my age who don't think cuckoldry humour is the best you can come up with? It's not about bad words, it's about being taken seriously.

Wiki logo and favicon should be updated within the hour, it's still placeholder but at least it's not the default ugly looking thing.

I support this idea of only to oppose shit like this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism?wprov=sfla1

So you want this to be a red metapedia or what? I wanted a Holla Forums wiki not some boring propaganda piece.

why not discuss all relevant definitions like wikipedia does? I'm not saying lets go for a wikipedia like neutral point of view, but rather we should aim for a generally leftist perspective, with explanations of the debates within the left.

That's the point. You could have an article called Crony Capitalism explaining it's a made-up concept to pretend the whole thing was just a one time exception. Can't do that on Wikipedia.

My thought exactly. We already reached a consensus as "aiming for progressivism and collective ownership of the means of production".

user, what views do you think teachers teach about society? What do you think the left is?

it's not wikipedia nor a serious academic resource, but something that exists in a liminal space like leftypol itself. ie. an emphasis on internet culture and somewhat informal tone is to be expected.

Enjoy your shitty encyclopedia that will die in a week.

I mean there are a lot of marxist teachers, especially in France. I don't mean like teachers who make their pupils bored and hate their job, I mean those you actually look up to.

Thanks! Funny thing is I will.

Saying that most mainstream communists and socialists parties are now socdem or soclib.

Hmm, ok. What counts as a social-democratic platform, then? Karl Marx was talking about raising taxes and free education in the Communist Manifesto, and Lenin stressed the importance of working within reactionary parliaments (in the right situations), so I hope you're not writing off any party that has short term goals and demands as succdem here.

You will die in a week? What?

I will enjoy my shitty encyclopedia that might die in a week.

Alright boys, it's slowly coming together.
However we're going to need experts about :

Revolutionary theory

Computer science

Art and Ideas historians

Philosophy (western AND eastern)

People willing to proofread

Economics

Electronics

Geopolitics

Political science/theory

Survivalism (why not?)

I am socdem, I'm not writing them off.
I am stating a truth.

I'm doing a degree in engineering, does that count ?
I've mostly read classical liberals but I can do a short write up on Kantian ethics, as well as a bit of Rousseau, but nothing too advanced.

What? Do you consider Marx a succdem because short term he wanted higher taxes and free education?

I'm mostly writing what I know.
Labour is undoubtedly socdem.
The French Communist Party/Unsubmissive France are socdem as well. They have even abandoned the Hammer and Sickle, and they are the last mainstream party - the two behind are the two main trots who did less than 1% combined, and after that it's little sects and irrelevant groups.

There has been a shift in vocabulary in the recent years.
Socialist/Soc-dem in name => Social-Liberal in practise
Communist/Labour => Soc-dem (though sometimes hardline soc-dem) in practise.

That's how I see it, if I'm in the minority you can edit it, it's your property after all.

I agree with you pretty much, a lot of old communist parties are socdem-ish today. I was just wondering if you were expressing some silly ultra-left position that any party that has a short term strategy and short term goals that aren't global full communism is socdem or opportunist or something.

You can have revolutionary communist parties that still want to improve the lives of proletarians under the capitalist system.

I'm a (a bit self-aware, and a bit hardline) socdem, how could I be ultra-left or leftcom ?

Can someone make an info box for the Holla Forums page like the one here?
unitedchans.wikia.com/wiki/Holla Forums

Tbh we don't need experts, just people who feel they can contribute and want to learn about things they don't know in the process.

mensuel.framapad.org/p/Leftypol-brainstorming if you guys wanna discuss things we should work on at first.

Some corrections need to be made, but for now I think the best strategy to follow is: just write. Maybe the OP doesn't agree with this, but I think quantity is a bit more important than quality rn because you need to signal that the Wiki is alive at all.

I'm just making sure we're all on the same page when it comes to what should and shouldn't be an article to avoid having memes all over the place and conspiracy theories about SJWs etc.

Alright everyone, I'm off to bed, we'll start actually discussing content tomorrow.

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