Is Zizek right about Muslim immigration?

Charles Torres
Charles Torres

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY

Zizek says that there is nothing wrong with taking in refugees, but the way the EU did it is terrible and that he sympathizes with the radical right when they decry it.

Frenchies, is this stuff in the video common? If so I am inclined to agree with Zizek.

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3rNkkCAJY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf
https://www.glaad.org/2009/05/21/gallop-poll-includes-muslim-views-on-homosexuality
https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/4481625/Norris_MuslimIntegration.pdf?sequence=1
Thomas Mitchell
Thomas Mitchell

Sounds about right to me.

Wyatt Reyes
Wyatt Reyes

Zizek is ALWAYS right.

Austin Scott
Austin Scott

that youtube video you linked seems to be just some generic piece of alt-right propoganda from its title and the op's account name, not zizek

what were you trying to do here?

Landon Thomas
Landon Thomas

I mean, you can find hundreds of these videos on YouTube. I just searched up "walk through Paris refugees" and this is what came up. If this is not the case, that's why I asked the Frenchies about it in the OP.
what are you trying to do here
Confirm whether or not Zizek is right about the refugee program into Europe.

Juan Cruz
Juan Cruz

Zizek is practically useless and a talking head at this point. The worship over him is primarily just because he talks funny and is a known communist.

I would take everything he says seriously full stop with a grain of salt. Zizek can and has been wrong

Camden Adams
Camden Adams

He is the most prominent communist of the day, dude. Can you name me another communist that has the depth of knowledge and the breadth of influence that he does?

Blake Turner
Blake Turner

Is Zizek right about Muslim immigration?
*sniff* yesh *touches shirt nervously*

Juan Carter
Juan Carter

. Can you name me another communist that has the depth of knowledge and the breadth of influence that he does?

So let's just believe everything Zizek says

Thomas Myers
Thomas Myers

t. brainlet

Luke Thompson
Luke Thompson

Zizek can and has been wrong
*gasp*

Aiden Harris
Aiden Harris

Of course he is.

Brandon Hall
Brandon Hall

I'm sympathetic towards the idea of taking refugees, sort of, but most of the migrants are not refugees. Many just come to get on welfare, though some of them actually work. With too large of a Muslim population, governments will be forced to appease them to win elections, which will in the long run lead to European Islamic Republics.

This will be a disaster. If you thought the Nazis were bad, just wait until we have Deutsche Islam. If you thought Arab Jihadis were bad, just wait until an obedient, warlike population like the Germans, who already harbored a fascination for Islam in their psyche, adopt in en masse. The Germans are, after all, not known for moderation.

Landon Price
Landon Price

muh economic refugees
you fell for a meme

Kevin Nguyen
Kevin Nguyen

, which will in the long run lead to European Islamic Republics.

This is hysteria at this point.

Kayden Diaz
Kayden Diaz

With too large of a Muslim population, governments will be forced to appease them to win elections, which will in the long run lead to European Islamic Republics.
Hans, the Muslims are now 5% of the population, we have no option but to run on the Islamic Jihad platform.

Isaiah Martin
Isaiah Martin

Now this is some scaremongering. At least give some realistic commentary.

Jordan Rodriguez
Jordan Rodriguez

accept refugees but instead of clustering them together in camps where the refugee lifestyle is the norm house them in the homes of citizens with space to spare across the nation to acclimatize them to the nation's culture

it's that fucking easy

Josiah Stewart
Josiah Stewart

I'm not saying they will run on an Islamic platform in the near term, but, over time, I think Germans will convert to Islam. It's perfect for the eternal German. Submission and Jihad are core ideas of Islam. A religion like Islam is practically tailor-made for the Germans. Hitler, of course, was a big fan.

Daniel Hernandez
Daniel Hernandez

Germanic Islamic Socialism with jihadi characteristics when?

Ryan Jones
Ryan Jones

what were you trying to do here?
/pol/ trying to subvert while Zizek advocates for literally air lifting refugees to Europe

Kevin Brooks
Kevin Brooks

Put people in refugee camps
They radicalise and are unhappy
Hmm lets try that again…
Oh guys lets put them in modern houses with everything they need and more, but no guidance
Meanwhile your own poor cant afford new clothes despite a supposedly sufficient welfare system.
Hmm lets try that again
Privatise schools that teach about host countries culture
Privatise housing and tell them to tough it out
Well tried everything

Thomas Jenkins
Thomas Jenkins

5% is short term thinking. Remove old people from the equation (irrelevant as they'll have no more children) and then look at the difference in birth rates. Given time they'd become a majority based on those facts alone, but they don't even need to reach 50% to be a major voting base. Native's are alright split between left & right and other racial groups will fragment the voting base even further

Mason Rodriguez
Mason Rodriguez

This is hysteria. You aren't recognizing many Syrian refugees, are fucking leaving at this point.

Adam Cook
Adam Cook

Syrian's don't make up the majority of refugees, the people claiming to be Syrian can't return to a country they're not from.

Jonathan King
Jonathan King

Fun thing is that if a revolution ever happens they will get killed if they don't drop that religious bullshit, so basically we are mining our own revolution by letting them in. I don't understand how a socialist can be ok with letting reactionary, racist, bigots diasese ridden assholes into the continent. But again, more assholes like them to kill less reactionaries will oppose us

Benjamin Lopez
Benjamin Lopez

Hysterical nonsense but even if it were true it wouldn't matter.

Camden Jackson
Camden Jackson

Please, learn your facts before you start shitposting here /pol/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

You are just spreading the fear of "eurabia", while ignoring the facts

Henry Gray
Henry Gray

daily reminder half the planet will be uninhabitable this century and mass migration to colder climates is inevitable

Xavier Hall
Xavier Hall

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in Europe.[40][41] According to the Pew Research Center, the Muslim population in Europe (excluding Turkey) was about 30 million in 1990, 44 million in 2010 and is expected to increase to 58 million by 2030; the Muslim share of the population increased from 4.1% in 1990 to 6% in 2010 and will continue to increase over the next 40 years, reaching 10% in 2050.[7][30] There were approximately 19 million Muslims in the European Union in 2010 or about (3.8%).[42]
Well you are kind of spreading "eurabia" too

Henry Robinson
Henry Robinson

Implying Muslims aren't going to lead "the" revolution

Bentley Evans
Bentley Evans

what are weapons

Jaxon Williams
Jaxon Williams

Your own link says they have an above average fertility rate both globally and within Europe.

Hunter Cox
Hunter Cox

How does this help at all?

Angel Campbell
Angel Campbell

Explain to me, how the 10% of entire population is going do take over the whole continet.
The number is high, because they are already muslims living in Europe in countries such as Kosovo, Albania and Bosnia and Herzegovina, so it isn't as scary as it may sound to some.

Jeremiah Hernandez
Jeremiah Hernandez

Your own link says they have an above average fertility rate both globally and within Europe.

What are you going to do to stop them?

Shoot them some more? That's a great idea, it's not counter intuitive

Joseph Sanchez
Joseph Sanchez

Like they did in afghanistan. Fuck off with this bullshit.

Brayden Barnes
Brayden Barnes

Good luck disposing of at least half of the worlds bodies before they cause unimaginable destruction to the already dwindling habitable land.

Benjamin Wright
Benjamin Wright

It's literally not counter intuitive, the countries that treat immigrants the worst have the least problems with terrorism etc

Bentley Cruz
Bentley Cruz

I don't understand how a socialist can be ok with letting reactionary, racist, bigots diasese ridden assholes into the continent.

There's an element of guilt over past sins, an element of identification of islam with anti-imperialism, but also, I think, a fascination with Islam by many leftists. See the popularity and romanticization of Hezbollah, Khomeini, Ba'athism, etc.

Angel Ward
Angel Ward

They may very well have, but the high fertility rate is present mostly in their homelands, not Europe. In Europe their fertality rate is pretty close to non-muslim population fertility rate

Muslim women today have an average of 2.2 children compared to an estimated average of 1.5 children for non-Muslim women in Europe While the birth rate for Muslims in Europe is expected to decline over the next two decades, it will remain slightly higher than in the non-Muslim population

Asher Morgan
Asher Morgan

Explain to me, how the 10% of entire population is going do take over the whole continet.
What is exponential growth.

James Anderson
James Anderson

10% who want to enforce sharia
I'm not scared of a take over. I'm scared of their presence. We nearly ended christianity I don't want to spend half a century taking off another shit

Jaxon Morales
Jaxon Morales

I wasn't talking about a socialist one but I do think that Muslims will have their own revolution in Europe/

Xavier Ross
Xavier Ross

It's literally not counter intuitive, the countries that treat immigrants the worst have the least problems with terrorism etc

It is counter intuitive because of the context of our time.

Isaac Hernandez
Isaac Hernandez

What's the solution then?

Nicholas Barnes
Nicholas Barnes

Bitching about muslims is mass hysteria at this point tbh

Oliver Morales
Oliver Morales

stop reddit spacing

Isaiah Perry
Isaiah Perry

Export the problem back to the Middle East or North Africa.

Michael Sanchez
Michael Sanchez

Complete hysteria ITT, just take a look at the Muslims in Germany, most of them are supporting pride parades, the ones I know in my Uni are mostly chads who party and drink all night, you people honestly believe that Islam is going to beat liberalism? the ideology that ended both Nazism and Communism?

Noah Edwards
Noah Edwards

say that to the people of rotherham

Cooper Garcia
Cooper Garcia

correlation is causation

Jose Collins
Jose Collins

muh rotherham

Carter Peterson
Carter Peterson

How was that reddit spacing

Wyatt Thompson
Wyatt Thompson

So you can keep Capitalism safe?

Christian Wilson
Christian Wilson

Holla Forums loves to romanticize Arab nationalism and Arab secularism back in the 20th century. How did that turn out in the long term?

Julian Parker
Julian Parker

maybe if they weren't bombed into oblivion they wouldn't have come to europe en mass in the first place

Chase Butler
Chase Butler

You can thank the eternal anglo for that mess

Chase Taylor
Chase Taylor

How did that turn out in the long term?

The Cold War happened

Tyler Howard
Tyler Howard

1. Double on renovable energy
When I say double I mean eco stalinism levels of doubling on it. Less dependency on oil, less dependency on saudi cock, less wars, less immigration
2. Stop giving weapons to the saudi
Obvious
3. Embargo every country that is doing shit in that part of land
4. Close the boarders, shoot anyone who tries to enter until the countries that partecipate in war in the middle east have to take them all in
5. Do not build mosque or shit like that
6. "I wanna pray" "I wanna wear a veil"
Ok go back to you country then.

William Long
William Long

Don't let muslims in don't suffer islamic terrorist attacks is pretty basic logic

Robert Parker
Robert Parker

muh anecdotes
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality
agreed comrade FUCK poor whites

Ryan Watson
Ryan Watson

Can't believe I would say this, but even Stalin wasn't nearly as retarded as you

Ian Kelly
Ian Kelly

Leftcom

Adrian Jones
Adrian Jones

How did that turn out in the long term?
got bomb'd and invaded by America and Ussr because of inane political reasoning, then became fundamentalist s-holes.

Chase Rivera
Chase Rivera

Those are some pretty high figures compared to middle east countries

Easton Myers
Easton Myers

Western imperialists got mad that the Arabs weren't bowing down and paid ethnats to take over only for the ethnats to turn around and revolt against the West anyway?

Justin Lopez
Justin Lopez

you wouldn't know basic logic if it walked up to you and fucked your stupid face

you don't care about those people, and i don't doubt that you're actually glad it happened so that you could use it as a bludgeon for your defective ideology

Lucas Miller
Lucas Miller

Explain to me, how the 10% of entire population is going do take over the whole continet.
Look at the US. A small portion of rural, ultra-religious rednecks are able to get bathroom bills and anti-evolution propaganda passed with ease. Despite the majority of the country favoring Democrats, we have an all republican government who are now going even against their own electorate and are trying to get rid of Obamacare. 10% of anything with a singular purpose can be very controlling in any democratic country, espcially one like the US where power is often decided by political districts (states) and not by raw population numbers: oeople of Wyoming have 100 times the voting power of people in California.

Also I agree with other posters there that we really don't fucking need more Islam, and if anyone should be talking on more muslims it should be the US, who are funding the wars and radicalization in the first place. Insane christains are bad enough, we really don't need another crazy religious group vying for power.

It also really makes me doubt the current anti-democratic EU, as one woman in germany can just decide to introduce major demographic shifts in a country and no one can really do anything about it. If germany wants to take muslims then more power to them, but why the fuck do they have to force everyone else to?

I think the immigration issue is something I really steer from most of Holla Forums on, you guys are putting ideology before reality. Forcing the importation of large amounts of people from a different culture, education level, religion, morals, etc. into countries with already shaky economies is fucking retarded. I don't care how much you preach about world revolution or helping others, it's going to cause a lot of stress and you're not going to convince Joe Worker whose already struggling to get by to pay for a bunch of foreigners to sit around and complain all day. All this did was help the rise of the Aut-right as something to blame the left on.

Jordan Hughes
Jordan Hughes

America has that problem because of its electoral college, it isn't the same system of voting as in Europe.

Also this identity politics shit is really getting old at this point

Dominic Taylor
Dominic Taylor

an actual well thought comment
am I dreaming

Ethan Evans
Ethan Evans

I agree with you, what's the solution to this problem then? how do we stop it?

Jonathan Myers
Jonathan Myers

Assuming that nothing else changes, it would appear Muslims generally view American imperialism as an attack on the global ummah, which, combined with Saudi propaganda and Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, promotes radicalization, even in countries where US intervention is minimal. Unless one of these things changes in the future, which is not likely, I don't see why we shouldn't expect radicalization to continue in Western countries. Given this, it would seem a lot easier to export the problem back to the Middle East than to try to integrate them or try to go full Hoxha on the Islamic clergy.

Jackson Rodriguez
Jackson Rodriguez

A small portion of rural, ultra-religious rednecks are able to get bathroom bills and anti-evolution propaganda passed with ease
Because they're in seats bought for them by capitalists you massive dipshit. The "bathroom bill" is just a cover for the anti-worker legislation actually in the stupid thing.

you guys are putting ideology before reality
Tell us more about the scary muslim shadows on the wall my dude.

Blake Fisher
Blake Fisher

Also I agree with other posters there that we really don't fucking need more Islam

What you need and what you have are two entirely different things, and reality doesn't usually give you "what you need", you need to adapt to the circumstances or fucking loose.

Right now, the Western World has fucked up massively by not only supporting the wrong causes in the 20th century, but by creating a worse climate. All in areas that are going to be hit the hardest by the climate. You could not have fucked up worse and destabilized the world easier. The "Western World" has "lost" already.

What everyone who doesn't want migration to happen is either mass death (supporting the Military Industrial Complex yet again that lead us here, supporting Capital and Imperial); or just wants fantasy where the world is comfortable.

The world will not be comfortable, so get that through your head.

You have to find out a way to make this fucking work.

David Ramirez
David Ramirez

The "bathroom bill" is just a cover for the anti-worker legislation actually in the stupid thing
What you mean? Are they trying to attack workers rights to use the restroom on the clock? I don't see how saying that you must use your birth sex's restroom is anti-worker.

Landon Barnes
Landon Barnes

Gee, I wonder who the US could be supporting. I doubt it's fucking Saudi Arabia

Jackson Bailey
Jackson Bailey

pay for a bunch of foreigners to sit around and complain all day
Man imagine being this deep in the trashcan, news flash, the only reason Germany is still kicking even after the recession is because of immigrant workers, hell even the NHS which nationalist fags keep complaining that is going to get shut because of immigrants is actually RUN by immigrants (1 in 6 doctors), the U.S is also a world power because of it's immigrant workforce that comes from Latin countries, without immigrants you get a stagnate economy such as Japan, when will this "immigrants don't work" meme end already, how about you actually meet some immigrants before you lump them into whatever stereotype suits your ideology

John Richardson
John Richardson

Given this, it would seem a lot easier to export the problem back to the Middle East than to try to integrate them or try to go full Hoxha on the Islamic clergy.

The problem is that there is no solution to this problem. YOU CAN NOT FIX IT no matter how many are integrated or deported. All sides are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Gavin Taylor
Gavin Taylor

bad post

Joshua Ross
Joshua Ross

You have 0 reading comprehension and are looking to argue for the sake of arguing.

for them by capitalists you massive dipshit
Well the question was how does a small percentage of a population gain power and this doesn't disprove my point.

Tell us more about the scary muslim shadows on the wall my dude
I didn't say a damn thing negative about muslims, simply that the native europeans won't accept them no matter how much you try to tell them not to. Muslim immigrants could be the coolest dude on earth, but if the population doesn't want them then forcing it will only make them dig in their heels and vote right.

Isaac Sanchez
Isaac Sanchez

If your summary is true then I am disappointed with him. Tbh, we should just fuck off and become pluralist

Colton Ortiz
Colton Ortiz

I get to generalize the whole European population's opinion of Muslims
Stop posting

Angel Smith
Angel Smith

didn't say it is good thought :^)

Jeremiah James
Jeremiah James

The only way to stop radical islam and improve the lives of muslims in general is for them to have a better alternative. Taking people in and integrating them is good, as long as you don't marginalize the shit out of them by taking a shitload at once and riling up the racists (whoops). But I guess that's an unavoidable consequence of bombing the shit out of their native lands and tromping around looking for oil. Nuke the west tbh fam.

Christian Ramirez
Christian Ramirez

The only way to stop radical islam and improve the lives of muslims in general is for them to have a better alternative
so how will this happen? How will you persuade the investors to put money in Middle East?

Jacob Jackson
Jacob Jackson

Which one is easier: exporting the Islamic problem or overthrowing a military empire that can't run out of money? The first one, obviously. You don't even need to send all of them home. Even if you're just stuck with the T*rkroaches, that's an improvement.

Isaac Ward
Isaac Ward

Which one is easier: exporting the Islamic problem or overthrowing a military empire that can't run out of money?

"The Islamic Problem" is not going fucking away you naive dipshit

Daniel Mitchell
Daniel Mitchell

It doesn't need to go away, it needs to go back to Turkey or Syria or Iraq.

Jayden Wood
Jayden Wood

You can't be a leftist and support Islam.

Cameron Mitchell
Cameron Mitchell

What are you going to do when it becomes too hot for human occupation? All you can do is look at the plans you could have made and cry you were so fucking stupid and naive as you are now. You're a fucking child politically

Cooper Brown
Cooper Brown

How will you persuade the investors to put money in Middle East?
They are already doing this. Every bomb dropped is an investment because statistically it will create X number of radicals who provide a justification for more war ergo more arms contracts. Nothing else will come close to being that profitable, so the idea that the problems in the middle east will get better under capitalism is pure fantasy.

Julian Ramirez
Julian Ramirez

Thanks. Remember afghanistan

Sebastian Gutierrez
Sebastian Gutierrez

Islam and Muslims are two different things. Islam is a fascistic cult that has taken about 2 billion people hostage. Muslims are the hostages.

David Turner
David Turner

you can oppose middle eastern wars without supporting Muslim immigration

Angel Jackson
Angel Jackson

What if we, you know, tried improving places like Africa and the Middle East so their inhabitants didn't have a reason to migrate in the first place?

Benjamin King
Benjamin King

Why are you concerned with improving the welfare of others before the welfare of your own community? Dumbfuck.

Gabriel Flores
Gabriel Flores

Hoxha purges Muslim clergy
fugging rebisionists :DD BUNKERS and ATHEISM not ISLAM ok, praise Hoxha

Someone suggests sending Muslims in Europe back home
Holy shit, you fucking racist pro-US imperialist bigot! What's going to happen to them?! Where is your internationalist anti-imperialist spirit? Muslims are our comrades and are anti-imperialist. Remember, Ba'athism is socialist, also praise Hezbollah.

Cameron Gray
Cameron Gray

Why the fuck is this thread bumblocked?

Grayson Anderson
Grayson Anderson

That is what began all this in the first place. Capitalists "improving" these places through colonialism and until capitalism is gone any genuine try at improving will either be accused of being colonialism or subverted by capitalist into colonialism.

Matthew Thompson
Matthew Thompson

Someone suggests sending Muslims in Europe back home
Don't see whats wrong with this.
Why should European proles have to fix Africa and the middle east?

Cooper Cook
Cooper Cook

Chomsky, Cockshott, Stallman.

Jackson Brooks
Jackson Brooks

Starts thread about Zizek
Posts video infested with /pol/yps
Why indeed

Adam Anderson
Adam Anderson

I hope they come and rape you all tbqh

William Martinez
William Martinez

When I said eurpeans/muslims whatever I'm not meaning every last fucking one. Like my previous posts said, even a small percentage of the population can have huge political power. If there is a large enough minority to resist muslim immigration, they will give everyone else problems. If a minority of immigrants are extremists/rapists/whatever, they will give everyone else problems.

Xavier Martinez
Xavier Martinez

nope

Ayden Perry
Ayden Perry

European proles
Nice meme, you're only enjoying your first world living standards because people in the third world are slaving away in sweatshops

Jacob Reed
Jacob Reed

Chomsky
Fuck that liberal anarkiddie fuck
Stallman
Ah yeah we sure need another hippie fuck
Stallman
He's fine

Jose Rodriguez
Jose Rodriguez

Why should European proles have to fix Africa and the middle east?
Well, maybe because we colonized, exploited and helped to destabilize the region?

Jayden Perez
Jayden Perez

Hi jason

Adam Johnson
Adam Johnson

leftcom is a MTW
now I've seen everything. European people are still working class and still exploited, they shouldn't have to fix the mistakes of the ruling class.

Joseph Nguyen
Joseph Nguyen

Yeah why shouldn't those poor western proles keep burning carbon until those lazy shitskins get cooked to death? It's really not fair.

Charles Smith
Charles Smith

My post wasn't meant in a Maoist tone obviously, but to say that we have no business in helping proles in third world countries is extremely smug, reminds me of the liberal bourgeois attitude

Ayden Rivera
Ayden Rivera

Are they trying to attack workers rights to use the restroom on the clock?
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf

The bathroom shit is irrelevant identity politics to cover for the actual meat of the bill, which attacks what meager protections contract workers have, as well as taking the ability for municipalities to set their own regulations regarding requirements and discrimination and putting them solely in the hands of the state legislature.

The bathroom stuff doesn't fucking matter and never, ever did.

Well the question was how does a small percentage of a population gain power and this doesn't disprove my point.
No, it wasn't.

<Explain to me, how the 10% of entire population is going do take over the whole continet.

So no, your answer doesn't apply in the least bit when the topic is clearly demographic replacement. Comparing that fantasy with your equally defective understanding of the legislative system is fraudulent. These American legislators aren't a separate minority that "gained power," they're representatives put in place by the same two parties that have ruled in the US for over 200 years.

I didn't say a damn thing negative about muslims
You can shove that shit right back up your ass my friend. Your whole post is a diatribe against the Muslim Big Other and how they're so alien they can never integrate into European society.

Dumb and spooked is no way to go through life.

Henry Gutierrez
Henry Gutierrez

but this was the doing of the ruling class, and the worst of it was done before most people where even born. Why should the average prole in Europe or North America have to accept immigrants or improve the conditions for people in the middle east. That like if I broke something of yours and you forced my younger brother to pay for it.

Jonathan Martinez
Jonathan Martinez

There is a difference between sympathizing with someone and agreeing with them or admitting they are correct. People who flock to the far right have legitimate fears, but they are being led by Machiavellis who don't even have principles at all, even questionable ones.

What you should take from Zizek's commentary on the refugee crisis is the crux of the leftist position on the matter: Germany and the EU have bluntly demonstrated the failure of liberal capitalist "democracy", which suffers an inherent, irreconcilable conflict between its humanitarian ideals and the inhuman exploitation it endorses.

Logan Wilson
Logan Wilson

Muslim immigration is a direct consequence of the wars, and not allowing them to immigrate marginalizes them and plays into the hands of the islamists.
you can oppose X without supporting Y
It being possible to have a position says nothing about how reasonable the position is. A position doesn't even have to be coherent for people to be able to have it. I can oppose measles without supporting vaccines, even though that makes no sense.

Ethan Reyes
Ethan Reyes

https://www.glaad.org/2009/05/21/gallop-poll-includes-muslim-views-on-homosexuality
Out of the 500 Muslims in Britain interviewed, all responded negatively but gay Muslims in the UK are becoming increasingly visible and raising awareness. Groups like Al-Fatiha and Imaan are working hard to give a voice to gay Muslims in the UK. Al- Fatiha is in the process of conducting their own survey in order to better understand the experiences and concerns of the British LGBT Muslim community. Meanwhile, Imaan sponsors an annual LGBT Muslim conference in order to reconcile Islam with sexuality and educate people that Islam is not a homophobic faith and one that all LGBT can practice. LGBT Muslims are slowly emerging into the spotlight and changing hearts and minds. As expressed by gay UK journalist Omar Hassan in his recent commentary of the Gallup polls findings in The Advocate, there is no reason not to be optimistic: "I'm still hopeful. Together, we can build new families and communities. It won't be easy, but that shouldn't stop us from trying. After all, we owe it to each other – we deserve it."

0% MUSLIMS SUPPORT GAYS
Oh just ignore all these gay muslims

Reminder to always check sources and never trust /pol/

Brody Thompson
Brody Thompson

Why should western proles be punished for climate change? Do you think a billion or so people can be lifestyleist hippies?
Liberals are the ones who have the condescending noble savage view of brown foreigners who think they need to be saved and brought into the civilized world.

Julian Harris
Julian Harris

the worst of it was done before most people where even born
wew lad
Why should the average prole in Europe or North America have to accept immigrants
Because regular people shouldn't be deprived of a safe place to live.
or improve the conditions for people in the middle east
Because working people have no nation or state and improved conditions there mean improved conditions for everyone.

Juan Price
Juan Price

if having a reasonable immigration policy plays into the hands of the Islamist then Muslims aren't even worth trying to convince on our side. Let them go to the Islamist and just be sure to keep them out.

Michael Young
Michael Young

if having a reasonable immigration policy
Reasonabale is a buzzword in this context.

Bentley Gomez
Bentley Gomez

Why should western proles be punished for climate change?
Curtailing destructive consumption isn't punishment.

Jaxson Powell
Jaxson Powell

Why should western proles be punished for climate change?
<Why should white workers be punished for slavery by having to live next to freedmen?

David Evans
David Evans

Why should western proles be punished for climate change? Do you think a billion or so people can be lifestyleist hippies?
It is not punishment, you mong, it's necessary for your great-great-grandchildren to not die.

Lincoln Williams
Lincoln Williams

Because regular people shouldn't be deprived of a safe place to live.
The safety of a place for non-Muslims rapidly changes when the Muslim population reaches a critical mass.

I don't get why pro-Islam leftists can't just come out and say that a certain number of terror attacks, murders, rapes etc. by alienated or radicalized Muslims is an acceptable price to pay for the number rescued from Middle Eastern/African war or poverty. This is what the de facto position is, so why try to disguise it with various platitudes about the US, Saudi Arabia, or Israel? None of these factors is going to change in the near future. Integration doesn't really seem to work, so it would seem obvious that terror attacks or other crimes are simply a fact of life that we must accept for the greater good.

Ian Morris
Ian Morris

The overall trend with Islam polls is most important. There is an extremely strong correlation between country of origin and reactionary sentiment among Muslims. Pakistan and the MENA region are hotbeds of it, but Muslims in the Balkans are about as secular as Christians (there is some reactionary ideology, but only in terms of their weird ethnic conflicts).

It is true that Islam itself is massively spooky, but the sociological and political functions of religion are largely ignored by "rationalist" types. All Abrahamic religion is inherently political from a theological perspective, but there's no particular reason that Islam wouldn't become the empty cultural symbolism that Christianity has become under similar circumstances.

Jack Walker
Jack Walker

Muslims in the Balkans are about as secular as Christians
Well, Communists eliminated Real Islam there, like in Albania. Now they practice Islam In Name Only. This is fine, it's like how we practice Christianity In Name Only in the first world.

Andrew Richardson
Andrew Richardson

wew lad
Not an argument. Seriously most European proles where born after or at the tail end of colonialism
Because regular people shouldn't be deprived of a safe place to live.
Its not the job of the European proletarian to provide this.
Because working people have no nation or state and improved conditions there mean improved conditions for everyone
Let the proles of the middle east and north Africa fix their nations, Europeans fix theirs, Americans theirs and so on. Forcing them to fix the situation of foreigners is no better than work for porky.
not an argument
how does letting in immigrants help stop climate change? In only makes things harder with a more divide population and one with spooky religious shit who may not even believe in climate science.

Blake Anderson
Blake Anderson

It is Real Islam to them, though. Religion isn't founded on facts and reason.

Ayden Butler
Ayden Butler

It is Real Islam to them, though.
If only that was true for the rest of the Islamic world. Until this is the case, it'd be best to keep them out.

Julian Reed
Julian Reed

how does letting in immigrants help stop climate change?
The problem is that migration is going to be inevitable because climate change will render those regions inhospitable. Taking more people now will make the rush less intense later.

Leo James
Leo James

I like the way you make out like terrorism is just some sort of Islamic hobby

Leo Baker
Leo Baker

Are terrorist attacks going to stop in Western countries if more Muslims are let in, or not? Based on Muslims' own words, a combination of US imperialism, Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and Saudi/Qatari money funding mosques that are visited by alienated young men are the primary drivers of radicalization. Since the latter two are backed by the US, and the US can't run out of money, it is obvious that none of these factors is going away. It seems obvious that some terror attacks are going to happen if there is a large Muslim population from the Middle East present. Given all this, how many natives is it acceptable to let die to terror attacks or other crimes in order to rescue Muslims from US-backed violence?

Nolan Gonzalez
Nolan Gonzalez

All the more reason why immigrants should be keep out now before things become completely unstable.

Luke Gutierrez
Luke Gutierrez

Whether you like it or not, that isn't actually happening because the monarchs of the Middle East have immense de facto political authority. Even when the oil dries up, they'll have invested all of the money they made into literally trillions of US dollars in global investments. Due to the need for trade, and enabling Islamic pilgrimage, the Saudis will always be able to keep a path of human movement open between their country and the Western world. From a logistical perspective, trying to prevent Islamic terrorism is a fool's errand.

Being reformists, the biggest issue that anti-migrant political groups have is their absolute unwillingness to reason with liberals on their terms, because the leaders of these groups are far more paranoid than the normies that see them as a lesser of evils and think there is no point in trying at all if they can't have their unrealistic ideals. This has led to liberals having free reign to decide how the crisis has been dealt with, and their solutions will always be mired in political correctness when they aren't being challenged effectively.

I've seen this arrogance in arguments about the migrant question, not necessarily here, but definitely often. Calls for a "pragmatic solution" seem to be little more than a refusal to listen to reason, a demand for everyone who disagrees to shut the fuck up and do what they want or oh my god we're all going to die. It is no one's problem but yours if the potential consequences of actions are irrelevant to you.

Jayden Miller
Jayden Miller

Ok, so how many Muslims is it acceptable to let in, and how many native Euros is it acceptable to let die to terror attacks to rescue Muslims? Your answer seems to be "We can't do anything to stop it, so arbitrarily many."

Everyone likes to write paragraphs and paragraphs of drivel on here about the impossibility of preventing more Muslim migration, the utter immorality of sending them back (which is laughable while simultaneously anticipating revolutionary terror, especially against the religious, but whatever), but no one wants to provide a solution that isn't "Just have the revolution now!" Well, no shit, but how are you going to actually get people to support you while trying to convince them that a group of people who frequently exhibit a problem with terrorism and crime are actually their allies, and that they will update their beliefs after capitalism is abolished through global revolutionary terror? What's the backup plan for the revolution not materializing, Communist-run integration centers, or what?

Even Zizek's solution is basically "Take as many as we are taking now, perhaps more, but, make it orderly *sniff*" This is not particularly appealing.

At any rate, it really doesn't matter what we write on here. As you said, leaders want it to happen, so it is going to keep on happening. Too bad for the Caliphate of Europe, but it's been a walking corpse since WW1 ended, so bring on the Chinese Century.

Owen Carter
Owen Carter

Even Zizek's solution is basically "Take as many as we are taking now, perhaps more, but, make it orderly *sniff* and we should address the cultural difference between us and them *and so on*
Quote the full thing, boy

Jayden Phillips
Jayden Phillips

So what does "address cultural differences" mean? Either you get them to update their belief systems so that they are not prone to accepting radical versions of Islam, somehow, or you just acknowledge they exist, stop trying to integrate them altogether, and just accept terror attacks as a cost that must be borne for the greater good. Current methods of integration do not appear to work, after all.

Luis Rogers
Luis Rogers

Current methods of integration do not appear to work, after all.
What makes you think that they were meant to

Ian Hall
Ian Hall

Ok, so what do you do? Mandatory language classes don't work, welfare benefits don't work, etc. What does work, if anything?

Cameron Russell
Cameron Russell

how does letting in immigrants help stop climate change?
How does moving the goalposts stop you from being a faggot?

Not an argument.
Fuck you.
Its not the job of the European proletarian to provide this.
They have no right to stop it.
Let the proles of the middle east and north Africa fix their nations
They can't because Europeans and Americans keep wrecking them.

The safety of a place for non-Muslims rapidly changes when the Muslim population reaches a critical mass.
Now pull the other one granddad

Justin Murphy
Justin Murphy

rights
lel

Lucas Peterson
Lucas Peterson

I can't be bothered with these discussions about Muslims/Islam any more - they're just Sam Harris tier, i.e we need to let 2 billion people die in order to preserve life and our moral superiority.

Blake Robinson
Blake Robinson

Ok, so how many Muslims is it acceptable to let in
Considering, what, every major terrorist attack in Europe was perpetrated by second or third generation immigrants, what the fuck does "how many are let in" matter? Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't scary foreigners with Islam.

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/4481625/Norris_MuslimIntegration.pdf?sequence=1
Using this framework, we demonstrate that on average, the basic social values of Muslim migrants fall roughly mid‐way between those prevailing in their country of origin and their country of destination. We conclude that Muslim migrants do not move to Western countries with rigidly fixed attitudes; instead, they gradually absorb much of the host culture,as assimilation theories suggest.

I don't know what to suggest to you because you seem to be posting from some alternate dimension where /pol/ bullshit is true. Stopping the intense Otherization of them and letting them assimilate might be a good idea, but having worked with immigrants, taught immigrants, and working with immigrants, I don't know where you're getting this bullshit that they can't or won't assimilate. There's not some magic spell that will transform these people and fit them neatly into the social framework, especially at a time when the overall social framework is falling apart. Just like the Germans and Italians and Irish coming to North America and assimilating with Anglo society, there's going to be tension and strife until people figure out how to deal with one another, which means both societies have to change somewhat.

Elijah Ward
Elijah Ward

How does moving the goalposts stop you from being a faggot?
How about you stop trying to burden the European working class?
Fuck you.
still not an argument
Its not the job of the European proletarian to provide this.
They have no right to not be overrun by reactionary, fascist, ultra conservatives? I thought the left hated fascists.
They can't because Europeans and Americans keep wrecking them
And the when the western working class overthrows capitalism this will stop.

Isaiah Myers
Isaiah Myers

the utter immorality of sending them back (which is laughable while simultaneously anticipating revolutionary terror, especially against the religious, but whatever)
It's only a paradox if you think all Muslims are terrorists. :^)

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