Retarded design general

Parker Powell
Parker Powell

What the FUCK is this shit
Why are his shoes so big
Goddamn
Too Big

Also FFTA2 Luso, this is official art
This isn't appealing at ALL

All urls found in this thread:
https://www.google.com/search?q=principles+of+design&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS643US643&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF84TP15LYAhWEwYMKHSNQCdsQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=959
http://atelier.wikia.com/wiki/Anna_Lemouri
https://www.google.com/search?q=first+principles&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS643US643&oq=first+principles&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3584j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiupKvS-Sx1F-56wzYW_1g5w6zYuNeNHWKsFTzSGVUZe5-xg6BaFf37B_1_13NBAcy3WvwnrxzdMwz5zl-MzdSkgfTMOaPXJ_1JNtrlUZcqzYRxUuvQrdNJNNGi-DhLLdb2c2ywVdZq1hMItR7cVCUw6xwEBAwDGJeBicsJX1JHcdTtFSfNKPHIWLF_1mGbW-E_1aTqZZbSLEW&biw=1920&bih=959&site=search&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdsqe48ZLYAhXE7IMKHfEDALgQ9Q8IJCgA
James Robinson
James Robinson

These things

Asher Allen
Asher Allen

you just don't understand superior japanese stylized design
go be a faggot for realism somewhere else LOL

Eli Lee
Eli Lee

Servbots are adorable and look like Lego, there is nothing wrong with them.

Nathaniel Sanders
Nathaniel Sanders

Uhh kill yourself.

Oliver White
Oliver White

The squidboy has those puffy volvos because having large sneakers with the laces undone and the tongue out is both funky and fresh. Luso, on the other hand, is just a man going mad with power.

Alexander Campbell
Alexander Campbell

Yeah those boys seem pretty fresh
Would get in and ride to fast food with / 10

Luis Kelly
Luis Kelly

not liking big shoes

Gavin Garcia
Gavin Garcia

but those designs seem alright OP.
Also that cap makes that squid look way more sexualized than he ought to

Cooper Torres
Cooper Torres

Any endgame tier MMO armor

Parker Hall
Parker Hall

There's nothing sexualized about it.

Christian Perez
Christian Perez

This better be bait.

Hudson Peterson
Hudson Peterson

They were the rabbids from their era.

Samuel Davis
Samuel Davis

The Inkling's shoes are yuge because he's funky fresh. Not that you'd understand you uncultured swine, I bet you don't even watch Rick and Morty.

That being said, what the fuck is up with the fucking sausage foot design going on in the Sonic series? Can't these fuckers draw toes? Also, why the fuck does Sonic have a god damn uni-eye? Just bring his brow down another couple inches you niggers jesus fuck.

Camden Butler
Camden Butler

implying the inklings aren't stellar character designs
Boy, didn't need to wait long for this to turn into a "/v/ doesn't understand visual design" thread.
why does a character with no fewer than three design elements weighting his upper body have an equally weighty element on his lower body?
why does a game with an emphasis on customizing your character emphasize a customizable part of your character?
why does a game drawing heavy influence from urban "mix-and-match" street fashion have urban street style shoes on its characters?
OP, I was once as much of a faggot as you. If you read a fucking book and appreciate the elements of visual style (/co/ and /loomis/ are good starting places), then there might be hope for you yet. I don't want to believe there is, but considering the way I turned out I absolutely must believe it.

David Price
David Price

They have blob feet because Sonic's classic design was inspired by characters like Felix the cat.

Jose Nguyen
Jose Nguyen

Can't these fuckers draw toes?
They all wear shoes though. You posted autismal fan art. Big the cat wears socks with sandals because you're suppose to hate him.

Gavin Flores
Gavin Flores

Has anybody ever told you that you indeed write like a fag?

Blake Anderson
Blake Anderson

Who is this faggot?

Ryan Morgan
Ryan Morgan

The Amy pic is an official promotional render, the Tikal pic is from an official comic.

Jose Robinson
Jose Robinson

That pic of Amy he posted is official, and the pic of Tikal is from the official comic. Her in-game model has no toes, either.

Thomas Jones
Thomas Jones

Also his shield looks like a BitCoin

James Rivera
James Rivera

Hmmmm

Noah Long
Noah Long

Would the lAser pizzacutter cut pizza betteR?

Jaxon Baker
Jaxon Baker

I guess that makes sense, but it still makes me sick.
You posted autismal fan art
The fuck are you talking about? That pic of big was ripped from his SA in art.
Big the cat wears socks with sandals
Not unless he's wearing dark purple socks.
you're suppose to hate him
I love that stupid annoying cat.

Samuel Miller
Samuel Miller

They wouldn't need to balance out the bottom half if they didn't give him a gigantic head

Alexander Morgan
Alexander Morgan

one of the most annoying parts of an otherwise good game

Ian Gonzalez
Ian Gonzalez

ITT people who have never drawn a single character judging character design

INB4 you don't have to do a thing to be able to judge it

You have to know the basics at least. OP doesn't even know about cartoons and exaggeration and stylisation.

INB4 you like the pizzacutter bullshit
No, I don't.

Evan Smith
Evan Smith

ancient race of dudes looks ancient and an Aztec god

It's a simple design and your retarded ass seems to be frustrated. At least pick something from part 4 or 5 you double triple quadruple nigger.

Mason Stewart
Mason Stewart

Guess I can't shittalk videogames because I have never made one!

Tyler Brown
Tyler Brown

can't get muscles because he's lazy
look at this faggot and laugh

Joseph Miller
Joseph Miller

your argument does have merit, but would you go as far as to say that the designs in this thread somehow aren't shit?

also, good style is entirely subjective.

Sebastian Jones
Sebastian Jones

superior japanese stylized design
/jp/index.html
/a/index.html

Jason Brooks
Jason Brooks

Now look at this shit. The holes kinda remind you of poison in a corrosive kinda way? Still looks silly as fuck considering it takes so long to actually SEE his stand and then he gets written out cus Araki wrote another ability in that'd break every encounter.

Robert Ortiz
Robert Ortiz

/somethingawful/index.html

Hunter Hall
Hunter Hall

What happened with him again

Josiah Bell
Josiah Bell

He wussed out and was never seen again.

Ryder Ortiz
Ryder Ortiz

There's nothing wrong with that second character's design. Is his attire outlandish? Yes. Is it impractical for a real world combat scenario? Absolutely. However, everything is drawn proportionately, the color scheme consists of mid tones and warm colors that harmonize to some degree, there is proper use of shading techniques that give the character's various components the appearance of dimensional depth, and the artstyle itself is unique.

You're criticizing elements of the character's aesthetic, not the design itself. Pic related is an example of shitty visual design. First, the proportions are way off; her head is too small, her breasts and legs are misshapen; the articles of clothing appear flat and one dimensional, as though they're grafted to her very skin somehow, and there is no sense of perspective in this image. However, the use of color is rudimentary but passable, and the artist took the time to produce solid lines for the character's outline, so it's not all bad. It just reeks of amateur work.

Austin Foster
Austin Foster

He pussed out when he found out they'd be fighting the leader of their gang. Really it was cuz Araki knew he'd trivialize things a la Star Platinum THE WORLD.
Apparently the light novel about him gives him a redemption arc after the events of part 5, but i aint readin that shit.

Owen Richardson
Owen Richardson

characters who are meant to be cute and emotive have big heads
this is bad because ???
You are incredibly stupid. The entire point of the inklings' design is to make their upper body visually interesting, hair in particular, because 1) their hair colour is the indicator of what team they're on, and 2) their squid hair is their defining visual character trait and half the reason anyone cares about them.

Graduate high school and learn how to fucking draw before you make garbage threads like this.

I'll post some actual bad visual design so you know what it looks like.

good style is entirely subjective
Wrong. Your interpretation and like/dislike of visual designs is subjective, but objectivity does exist in art and especially in character design. Visual art has quantifiable elements (line, shape, colour, form, space, texture, value) and the way in which these elements are used, although subject to some leniency due to it being art, is measurable.

Isaiah Green
Isaiah Green

You have to know the basics at least.
Which you probably don't. Tell me what makes a character design good without posting one you think is good.

but would you go as far as to say that the designs in this thread somehow aren't shit?
Based on certain criteria they are, and other criteria they are not. You'd have to give broader terms.

also, good style is entirely subjective.
Just because you dont feel like putting in the effort to classify something doesn't mean you can just throw your hands in the air and say "it's all relative maaaaaan."

It's not relative. There are basic principles of design that you can use to create an objectively good looking outfit design.

Google search related:

https://www.google.com/search?q=principles+of+design&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS643US643&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF84TP15LYAhWEwYMKHSNQCdsQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=959

Grayson Turner
Grayson Turner

He was so broken Araki wrote him out of the story, he later got a light novel and a requiem stand that is somehow worse then his standard one and gets to be part of the gang again.

Samuel Clark
Samuel Clark

goddamn! how the fuck does that person even fight?
I mean look at that fucking loincloth!
Even a hop is enough to reveal your dick!

Daniel Hughes
Daniel Hughes

However, everything is drawn proportionately, the color scheme consists of mid tones and warm colors that harmonize to some degree, there is proper use of shading techniques that give the character's various components the appearance of dimensional depth
What you're describing is the craft of drawing rather than the design itself. Basic artistic tenets like keeping characters proportional and shading items accordingly do not salvage a bad design, which that character fucking is.

The point of a character design is to inform the view of the character, especially information which cannot be imparted through non-visual means or is imparted more quickly through visual means. Tell me, what job is that guy supposed to have? The giant pizza cutter doesn't look like a weapon, but it's too large to be an actual pizza cutter or anything else. He carries shit tonnes of stuff in his pockets, but his loose, baggy clothing and ostentatious boots don't give me the impression he's prepared for anything. He could be a street urchin who grabs everything, but then why the lavish glass weapon and the bright, fancy clothing? Nothing about him makes any visual sense.

and the artstyle itself is unique
It looks like most generic JRPGs. This outfit is the literal poster child for bad visual design and it's so bland I can't remember what game it's from despite having been told multiple times.

Wyatt Thompson
Wyatt Thompson

*inform the viewer of the character

Kayden Lopez
Kayden Lopez

Lies

Jaxon King
Jaxon King

NO NEED FOR SEX

Luis Kelly
Luis Kelly

style = art now? your point is told much better by the next user, maybe part of it is that he isn't using 3/4 of his post to be a cunt.
I'll post some actual bad visual design so you know what it looks like
lawbreakers already in the thread you blind fuck

basic universal principles I agree on. objectivity I don't. with that view, just because something is subjective doesn't make it any less impactful, to the point of being practically but not literally synonymous with actual objectivity. this is just a dumb nitpicking distinction though, other than that I completely agree with you.

Michael Robinson
Michael Robinson

There's nothing wrong with that second character's design.
A: You're commenting more on the technique behind the picture, rather than the design itself, which is not what the thread is about.
B: Luso's design isn't bad because of weirdness or impracticality; it's bad because it's a fucking busy mess of cluttered objects with no coherent theme or idea. It's like he tripped and stumbled through a scrapyard of clothing and armor, and that was the result. You can barely tell what he's supposed to be, other than "adventurous boy".

Andrew Lewis
Andrew Lewis

So you agree that there is a set of objectively correct basic universal principles that you can judge things on, but that there is no such thing as objectivity?

just because something is subjective doesn't make it any less impactful
Your subjective opinion is BY DEFINITION less valuable than an objective judgement because it doesn't take into account as much information as possible.

Also
Impactful
That isn't a word. You cant just add suffixes to existing words and use them. It makes you look dumbful. Full of dumbness. See what I did there? See how stupid it sounded?

to the point of being practically but not literally synonymous with actual objectivity
You lost me here entirely.

Also
maybe part of it is that he isn't using 3/4 of his post to be a cunt.
You must be new here. Being a cunt is part of the culture. Iron sharpens iron, you clay faggot.

Dominic Stewart
Dominic Stewart

Tell me, what job is that guy supposed to have?
<Hasn't played the game
<Thinks he can judge it's ability to protray what he is
He's a jack of all trades main character from a Final Fantasy Tactics game, he's supposed to be able to be literally any class. Evidently he did convey his role in the story as you seem to understand it as him being anything. Your argument falls flat with things that are taken completely out of context. I can post Stand Designs all day but that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't know Jojo is going to understand what the fuck they are or what they do.
inb4 stands aren't well designed
Luso design is shit because it's full of visual fucking clutter. If we were to compare him to the protagonist of the game before his I would say it almost too simple and much straight forward, but certainly doesn't sting my fucking eyes trying to figure out where they want me to look when I see Ramza's simple armor.

Grayson Taylor
Grayson Taylor

What's with the random French/Asian guy?

Josiah Watson
Josiah Watson

style = art now?
In the same way square = rectangle, yes. What do you think those words mean? I'm honestly curious as to your definitions.
maybe part of it is that he isn't using 3/4 of his post to be a cunt
getting mad at internet words on fucking Holla Forums
Amazing. I wish I could be as petty as you. Kill yourself.
lawbreakers already in the thread
Forgive me for missing the (1) and done post with no discussion or effort. My image of the UI is still relevant.

basic universal principles I agree on. objectivity I don't
So you agree that objective principles exist, but the end result of their application is somehow subjective?

Impactful
It is definitely a word.

Christopher Jackson
Christopher Jackson

capable of having an impact
It's fucking meaningless. Anything is capable of having an impact.

Carter Sullivan
Carter Sullivan

a piece of media literally called JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has bizarre character designs for beings which intentionally defy all logic and violate the laws of physics
this means final fantasy tactics is allowed to have its jack-of-all-trades main character look like visual garbage, because you could potentially make anything from that garbage
Your argument doesn't make any sense. If the designer wanted to convey potential, there should have been more small design elements from the various jobs: a single armour pauldron (fighter) or a handful of runes on part of his armour (various flavours of mage), for instance.

Anthony Jenkins
Anthony Jenkins

Basic artistic tenets like keeping characters proportional and shading items accordingly do not salvage a bad design
I disagree, and the picture you posted is an example that I'd cite to prove my point. The design is outlandish and nonsensical, and I don't see any problem with that. If you asked me to explain what it is, I'd say it's some kind of boss monster from an RPG, or possibly a wise cracking comic-relief type character. The skilled artist took the design and brought it to life, and it looks quite appealing if you ask me. If you disagree, then tell me why you think it's flawed?
The point of a character design is to inform the view of the character, especially information which cannot be imparted through non-visual means
Interesting perspective, and I can get behind that sentiment, but I don't agree that every visual design has to impart some immediately identifiable quality or character trait.
He could be a street urchin who grabs everything, but then why the lavish glass weapon and the bright, fancy clothing? Nothing about him makes any visual sense.
That's the beauty of imagination, I guess. Luckily, in most media, we don't require the visual design to communicate vital elements of the more information dense aspects of the world; the plot, the setting, the circumstances surrounding an unusual but plot-vital artifact, for example.
It looks like most generic JRPGs
Fair point, I can see how someone would think it does looks pretty generic. I just think that the style itself is like a combination of Eastern and Western design philosophy. It looks like that character could fit in well in An American Tail or Ferngully, for example, but it's still distinctly "anime-esque">>14002972

Gabriel Green
Gabriel Green

inkling
bad design
You have very strange definition of bad OP.

It's a pre-order bonus skin, the character's default skin is just as stupid looking.

Anthony Parker
Anthony Parker

He's a jack of all trades main character from a Final Fantasy Tactics game, he's supposed to be able to be literally any class.
He obviously doesn't look like a jack of all trades, because the most prominent thing on him is the big ass sword, and he barely has anything to suggest any other kind of role. His clothing, aside from the few pieces of armor, doesn't really look like it's meant to serve any kind of function, and only the book seems to suggest a role other than "swing big ass sword around". He's less a jack of all trades, and more a warrior that forgot most of his equipment, has terrible fashion sense, and needed to study for a big test.

I can post Stand Designs all day but that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't know Jojo is going to understand what the fuck they are or what they do.
That's not really an apt comparison, because one of the core aspects of what makes Stands so dangerous is that you don't know what the fuck they can do before they do it. If their function was obvious from their appearance, half the point of Stands as a concept would be missing.

Ayden Garcia
Ayden Garcia

When was the last time a pebble had any impact? Your statement was that it wasn't a word, which it clearly is. It's useless and kind of clunky, but definitely a word.

The design is outlandish and nonsensical, and I don't see any problem with that
The image I posted is an example of how the craft of a skilled artist can take a seemingly rough idea and turn it into something workable, emphasis on workable. The second design makes visual sense and looks like a real person/monster/whatever, but it is still cluttered and unfocused. Why does this character have four arms? Why does he have three separate melee weapons but still carry what appears to be a spellbook? Why is a solar system swirling around his head but he's still wearing mundane armour which doesn't carry any astronomical design motifs? If you think he's mean to be a comedic character, then why is the face on his breastplace angular and fanged, and why is his own face hidden behind an intimidating iron helmet? Why is he wearing jester's shoes?
Interesting perspective, and I can get behind that sentiment, but I don't agree that every visual design has to impart some immediately identifiable quality or character trait.
<hmm, yes, this "truth" you have here is an interesting perspective but i'm not sold on it
I really don't know what to tell you if you think this. This is how artists design characters to appears in visual works of fiction. Because they're visual works.
That's the beauty of imagination, I guess.
Oh, wait, I see. You're one of the types like pic related who'd call having a dog shit on his plate an engaging artistic experience, aren't you? I'm utterly baffled as to how you can think this way. Video games are a visual medium. The purpose of art as a commercial product in a visual medium is to inspire imagination, yes, but to do it in a focused way so the guy who paid for his entertainment understands it. If every character was as poorly designed as that pizza slicer asshole, then you wouldn't have any clue what was what because there'd be no visual coherence.

You speak as though you're trying to be worldly and oh-so-poetic, but your viewpoint here is shallow and nothing more. You're arguing AGAINST the importance of visual design in a visual medium. What's wrong with you?
sorry for the wall o' text, i'm tired

Julian Campbell
Julian Campbell

Someone didn't finish reading the part of the post where I stated the real reasons Luso's design is shit did they. Your logic is backass retarded and shows that you don't understand character design.
hurr durr it's only because it's Jojo's Bizarre Adventure that you can do a bizarre character design and make it look
You're a fucking idiot, plenty of designs make no sense out of context and are still good.
He originally stated that
The point of a character design is to inform the view of the character, especially information which cannot be imparted through non-visual means or is imparted more quickly through visual means.
Which is just part of what Character Design is. It doesn't matter how easy it is to determine what a character does they're design can still be incredibly boring and meh.

Evan Clark
Evan Clark

When was the last time you did client work and they told you they wanted a more "impactful" design and you knew exactly what it meant without have to iterate 500 times on your design?

If it is a word, it shouldn't be.

Ryan Turner
Ryan Turner

the white man is the devil
(((WHO))) was responsible for the character design?

Daniel Allen
Daniel Allen

More mad that it's a hwite male than the fact that they essentially put "splinter-satan" into a game

What did Tom Clancy do to these people?

Joshua Bennett
Joshua Bennett

Being a white conservative?

Liam Morales
Liam Morales

Why does this character have four arms? Why does he have three separate melee weapons but still carry what appears to be a spellbook? Why is a solar system swirling around his head but he's still wearing mundane armour which doesn't carry any astronomical design motifs?
These questions could likely be answered quite easily, given that it looks as though it's straight out of a fantasy game. It's magic, you simpleton. It doesn't need an explanation. The original intention was not to create something that "makes sense".
I really don't know what to tell you if you think this. This is how artists design characters to appears in visual works of fiction. Because they're visual works
Video games are a visual medium.
The purpose of art as a commercial product in a visual medium is to inspire imagination…in a focused way so the guy who paid for his entertainment understands it.
So, you really believe that every single stylistic choice has to be made to answer a string of hypothetical questions that try to test the design's internal logic and narrow down the design's existence from a practical perspective? I'll grant you that this is necessary sometimes, but it's not necessary all the time. If you're developing a type of advanced piece of alien technology, then it would make sense to design its components both piece by piece and holistically, so that the viewer can gain some understanding of how it works, but we're still working with fiction which means that you have plenty of creative room to interject a number of contextual explanations for any given outlandish design.
You're arguing AGAINST the importance of visual design in a visual medium.
No, you retard. I'm simply saying that every design is going to take some amount of creative liberty, unless you're paying someone to design a piece of architecture, clothing, or technology that can be implemented in our reality as we know it.

Kayden Barnes
Kayden Barnes

this is mainly just bitching about semantics

So you agree that there is a set of objectively correct basic universal principles
I specifically made sure to exclude "objective" from my phrasing. so no, I still disagree on that basis that objectivity isn't a thing. universal does not imply objective.
You lost me here entirely
for practical purposes my opinion would align with an "objective" one but I'm pushing back on the idea that there is an objective view to begin with.

you must be new here
sure

style
relation to the standard idea of what something is. this phrasing is intended to also include pieces that would seem to intentionally not stray from those standards, otherwise I'd phrase it as "deviation from." example would be how a drawing of a face compares to a list of facial proportions, where I'd consider a manga style with big eyes and a pointy chin and a medical illustration as both styles, just that one tries to change the proportions and the other tries to replicate them.
art
in this context, I'm referring to visual media. would include drawings, paintings, 3d renders, etc in this. I am not trying to throw a wider blanket as to what "art" is, though that argument is of course still out there.

the underlying point is that style is applicable to art, but it isn't comparing apples to oranges, or squares to rectangles. there isn't a larger classification we can pull like "fruit" or "quadrilateral," it's more like saying apple or orange isn't a type of taste. instead, taste describes something about the apple or orange. I'm using this kind of comparison between style and art, where art is the apple.

I wish I could be as petty as you
you were, which is why I was being petty. did you take it personally or something, user?

So you agree
refer to response to other user

Samuel Young
Samuel Young

one furthest on the right
Why is Super Saiyan Tracer's hair not gold? And what happened to her legs?

Joshua Wilson
Joshua Wilson

I didn't reply to your statements on Luso's design because we are in agreement, if for slightly different reasons. The visual clutter goes without saying, and would be removed with a less awful design, so I consider it a symptom rather than a cause.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean with your point about designs making sense out of context or not. I'm not a JoJo connoisseur, but what I meant to say was that it's right on the front of the tin: Bizarre Adventure. What I do know about JoJo is that is has a reputation for being weird and ostentatious, so weird and sometimes ostentatious stand designs seem to align with the artist's goal.

pic 3
This might sound really stupid, but I haven't seen that character before. I'm gonna tell you what her design makes me think of and you can tell me if the design was good enough to impart that information or not. I'm aware this is kinda dumb, but humour me, okay? I'm aware this is a bit of a tangent, but that art is really freaking good and I'm interested in it now.

Visually, she has a lot of round/ non-threatening edges to her (hair, hat, sleeves, dress), which makes me think she's young or inexperienced. Her face looks young, but you can never tell with anime characters. The designs on the clothing itself are intricate, and also very curved, which underscores this idea. Despite that, many of the designs end in angular shapes or are arrows, which implies she has a rigid personality or perhaps follows some kind of code, if I want to speculate more.

The colours are also important: the elaborate gold and rich red signify wealth or status, but the white and black of her sword and sleeves look more plain; if she's rich or important, she earned it, although I admit I may be looking too much into colours. I get the impression she's capable in combat (giant sword, practically cuts her form in half), and that she's motivated for emotional reasons rather than money or glory or something less tangible. Maybe her family is counting on her.

Apologies for the autism, but am I in the ballpark?

Joshua Smith
Joshua Smith

Objectivity does not exist

"I know for certain, that certainty does not exist."

"There is no such thing as the truth"

You are a objectively a faggot. Please realize how brainwashed you sound. Don't sit here and contradict yourself and expect anyone to take you seriously.

Levi Young
Levi Young

you know, if they had gone for DBZ-ripoff styling, maybe the game would actually appeal to blacks.

Jaxon Thomas
Jaxon Thomas

2017
Displaying ilsamaphobic germanic features
Not having all of your characters reflect some kind of disability so people of broken limbs can feel included.

It's made to appeal to e.y.e. divine cybermancy players.

Luke Jenkins
Luke Jenkins

It's magic, you simpleton. It doesn't need an explanation.
Glad to know you're irredeemable, then. I'm honestly speechless. Explanations make things, fictional or not, have weight to them, and no-one should set out to design anything without dramatic weight to it. Even something simple like a kid's cartoon benefits from genuine earnestness rather than the kind of churlish oh-so-enlightened irony you're peddling.

instead, taste describes something about the apple or orange
Okay, I get you, and if I'm understanding you correctly then we agree about the relationship between style and art: style informs art and art make style meaningful, but style in and of itself is something applied rather than done for its own sake.

I guess you misunderstood me at the start in then. My point is that style and art are both objective: Studio Ghibli has a style, Grand Theft Auto has a style, etc. in the same way a granny smith apple has a taste. But you seem to be conflating peoples' reactions to the taste and the taste itself.

objectivity isn't a thing
And then you go and act like a faggot again. Fuck, dude.

Jordan Long
Jordan Long

http://atelier.wikia.com/wiki/Anna_Lemouri
Anna is very kind and very hard-working. Perhaps because of her age, her extend of imagination is worrying, to the point she became paranoid and slashed anyone daring enough to approach her. She is very polite, caring and is acting as the strict mother of the group, complaining whenever the workshop gets dirty. She also scolds Nikki when she scratches her claw on the wood.

Kevin Morgan
Kevin Morgan

here is a hole, now jump in it
at no point will I try to objectively rule out objectivity. that's dumb. as a quick primer, I think our capabilities of observation and subsequent interpretation are too limited to actually make "the objectivity call," so I choose the "I dunno, maaaan" position. anything further on this topic is outside of the scope of this discussion because I don't feel like sounding like an asshat all night.

your description of design choice does follow, yeah.

And then you go and act like a faggot again
so long as I explain my point relevant to the thread topic, that's good enough. the rest is thrown in for fun

Ian Ortiz
Ian Ortiz

Most female armor, they have girls wearing dresses with little or no protection. High heels and shit. Just can't take it seriously. They cross over knights and paladins wearing plate armor but then they have Flint lock gunners who have as much armor as a civil war soldier, except it's a girl with a dress and that's it. Wtf? This speaks for most RPGs. What irks me is all the characters have a smile on their face and clean as shit, not like what they are about to go through hell killing everything.

Joseph Cox
Joseph Cox

at no point will I try to objectively rule out objectivity
Because you cant. Listen dude, we don't have the worlds true and false for no reason. We don't have the scientific method for no reason.

We exist as a species to classify and understand our world through the limited concept of language.

Just because you as an insignificant human can not know the objective truth, does not mean it does not exist. Defaulting to "I dunno maaaan" is intellectual laziness at best, and intellectual cowardice at worst.

so long as I explain my point relevant to the thread topic, that's good enough
This discussion is okay as long as we talk about judging character design even though we disagree fundamentally on how to judge things in the first place

We're doing what you'd call "going back to first principles."

https://www.google.com/search?q=first+principles&rlz=1C1MSIM_enUS643US643&oq=first+principles&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3584j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Please grow as a person as a result of this dialog.

Robert Thomas
Robert Thomas

I think you should go back and read what was written. Where did I say that explanations shouldn't be incorporated into a character's visual design? The answer is that I didn't. I said that sometimes that technique can be necessary, but this isn't always the case. Just because a design is not immediately identifiable doesn't mean that the design itself is bad. If you think that every single piece of a character's design needs to be explained to you, then you have a very narrow criteria for what constitutes "good design", and you'd probably think that a large number of well-known character designs are bad just because they're impractical or unrecognizable to your limited perceptive ability.

Have your opinion, but it's shit. Keep it out of my face.

Blake Thomas
Blake Thomas

This board has always been plagued with "literal-fags" where everything has to have some practical purpose or explanation or it's stupid or wrong.

Creativity for it's own sake can be interesting or fun, but there has to be a certain point where you stop and say things are getting out of hand.

With pizza cutter man, I would have stopped on any SINGLE goofy GIANT element they added. This is called using "emphasis."

Hey look hes got really big sleeves
Hey look he's got a huge glass pizza cutter
Hey look he's got a giant book
etc

Any of these things is fine/ interesting on it's own, but all of them at once is a clutter of emphasis. YOU CANT EMPHASIZE EVERYTHING, IT LOOKS SILLY LIKE THIS SENTENCE.

Pic not related

John Thomas
John Thomas

Do you have more of pic related or similar, that's adorable. Idk what it is about pixel animation, but when it's this detailed it's almost cathartic

Henry Cooper
Henry Cooper

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiupKvS-Sx1F-56wzYW_1g5w6zYuNeNHWKsFTzSGVUZe5-xg6BaFf37B_1_13NBAcy3WvwnrxzdMwz5zl-MzdSkgfTMOaPXJ_1JNtrlUZcqzYRxUuvQrdNJNNGi-DhLLdb2c2ywVdZq1hMItR7cVCUw6xwEBAwDGJeBicsJX1JHcdTtFSfNKPHIWLF_1mGbW-E_1aTqZZbSLEW&biw=1920&bih=959&site=search&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdsqe48ZLYAhXE7IMKHfEDALgQ9Q8IJCgA

Only because I was already there. Learn to image search dude. It's not hard.

Jose Sullivan
Jose Sullivan

Please grow as a person as a result of this dialog
I've seriously replied to two anons not just once, but multiple times. if that isn't confirmation that you aren't being ignored, I dunno what is. just remember that you'll always get regarded with a heavy dose of caution, since this is an imageboard after all.

"literalfags" as you call them are helpful if the genre is right. imagine an ArmA game where the character artist just went "fuck it, let's just make him look tacticool, that will work"
or imagine if anyone but a literalfag made a game in Germany

Joseph Reyes
Joseph Reyes

What. It was just a casual request to post any good ones that you particularly liked while you continued to sperg out with the other autist. Anyone could reverse image that. Also please don't post the entire fucking link, you cocksmoker.

Charles Robinson
Charles Robinson

Purple Haze Feedback isn’t bad. Fugo is still shit, but some of the villains and supporting cast more than make up for that.

Andrew Bell
Andrew Bell

With pizza cutter man, I would have stopped on any SINGLE goofy GIANT element they added. This is called using "emphasis."
Any of these things is fine/ interesting on it's own, but all of them at once is a clutter of emphasis.
Fair point. I don't particularly like the pizza cutter, I think the overall design would be more cohesive and easier on the eyes if the pizza cutter were totally removed and some of his other components were reduced in size, like the buckler, the arm guard, and the book. However, I still believe that any one of these elements could be made to work given some context. If we knew what the giant pizza cutter thing is, and it's an important object in the plot, then it could be excused. In other words, that element wouldn't necessarily be tied to the character's design itself, and you'd then move on to criticize the pizza cutter by itself as it relates to the other object(s) that it interacts with.

The design is mostly fine, but a few changes could make an improvement.

Jack Perry
Jack Perry

you should play metal slug. make sure to pick fio.

Chase Morgan
Chase Morgan

Sonic characters' feet being blobs
That seems to be the canon depiction so far. Tikal's feet are a good example of this in Sonic Runners and Sonic X. To be fair though, I guess this compromised look does makes sense. The cast is comprised up of different animals, so I guess they did have to find a middle ground somewhere.

It's ironic though that the retarded Sanic fandom has a big subsect for foot fetish artwork. Ugly toes, realistically wrinkly soles, and other autistic details. "Sanic mpreg" is also a thing however, so I guess I shouldn't be so surprised at how fucking degenerate they can get.

David Perry
David Perry

I'm not ignoring you
I don't care about that. You expressed your ignorance toward several concepts, and I genuinely hope you grow from his conversation.

are helpful if the genre is right
Yeah totally. They might all be Germans Or autists, autists are bothered by concepts that are not literal

Yeah I was probably a dick on that one.

Jason Evans
Jason Evans

if only indie shit games could do real sprite work like this

Kayden Sanchez
Kayden Sanchez

You know how expensive the Metal Slug art was?

Lincoln Sanders
Lincoln Sanders

I'll think about it. link to recommended book/article would be best

I doubt a soy latte drinking postmodern indie dev could produce comparable art, regardless of budget. maybe they could pull off something like this, if they tried really hard.

Asher Garcia
Asher Garcia

anything in Kingdom Hearts

Ryan Barnes
Ryan Barnes

The first game had nothing wrong until I guess it went into much darkness. It was supposed to be cartoons.

Brody Adams
Brody Adams

Any college level introductory textbook on philosophy.
Any college level introductory textbook on Ethics

Charles Gutierrez
Charles Gutierrez

I should have seen that coming.

Robert Ramirez
Robert Ramirez

I'm actually serious though. Questions like "Why are we here?" and "Am I living a (morally or generally)good life?" are questions that deserve to be explored.

Just try not to go insane once you get too deep and realize people only want to small talk.

Eli Diaz
Eli Diaz

was going to comment on the questions themselves, but that feels like it isn't the point so I digress

small talk people are fun in moderate doses. they're also great templates on how to not appear to be a turbo-autist.

Henry Barnes
Henry Barnes

343s spartan design styles are fucking awful. Though to be fair, almost everything looks worse in their games.

Brayden Turner
Brayden Turner

Reminds me of just how fucking ugly the Halo CE remake was.

Lincoln Adams
Lincoln Adams

Can't these fuckers draw toes?
You'd like what, wouldn't you user?

Alexander Gutierrez
Alexander Gutierrez

"Why are we here?"
A biological organism's purpose is to adapt and improve. We are the latest version of this organism.
"Am I living a (morally or generally)good life?"
Trivial, subjective question. I'm sure you are tho

Better questions would be: What happens when the all the information of the universe gets 'deleted' (see. black-holes)? What happens to, everything if humanity dies? Or the good ol' "Who/What created reality?".

Jace Reed
Jace Reed

shut the fuck up you goddamn barbarian you dont know shit about squids

Eli Green
Eli Green

le hat maymay
You can ponder unanswerable, meme questions that have no real bearing on your existence until it ends. Shit like "What is life?" and "Why are we here?" is high-school philosophy tier. No one has found the answers and spoiler alert no one will.

With the progression of knowledge come more nuanced, practical issues that have bearing on life and existence. Wanting to know the origin of everything doesn't make you an atheist. I'm more willing to believe that a conscious being created us than a big flashy boom.

Austin Carter
Austin Carter

A biological organism's purpose is to adapt and improve.
We are the latest version of this organism.

Jonathan Perez
Jonathan Perez

le greentext and reaction image
(1)
If you were looking for a (You), you got one.

Kayden Wood
Kayden Wood

It's and overdesigned mess, like they didn't know when to stop adding things to the character. This also bites Neptunia girls sometimes. Most of their regular forms look fine. Their HDD forms when it's just the bodysuit (character portraits, almost all official artwork) look nice too. But in-game where they suddenly have a whole lot of pieces glued to them it looks horrible.

Tyler Taylor
Tyler Taylor

My entire point with generic anime girl with katana 38 was that you can easily recognize her, what she will do in combat, and still it's a boring ass design. It told you everything you needed to know and it's still an awful forgettable character design. Meanwhile you have Ryuk whose design tells you literally nothing important about him then he's some otherworldly entity, and yet is much more iconic and distinctive. Maybe you assume that he's a demon or associated with death but nothing definitive.

All your statements at design still can't cover why Naruto is the current most iconic design for a ninja when he is one of the least ninja looking characters in anime. At best his clothing depicts his as a shounen protagonist which is young, hot-blooded whatever, but that's generic as fuck.
Naruto was good for the very first arc you faggots and his design is memorable even if his character is shit

Samuel Foster
Samuel Foster

I see I've found some fellow Rick & Morty fans. Thank you for trying to enlighten these witless fools but I expect them not to be on our level just yet, heh.
In the end reddit and 9gag are the only sites where intellectuals like us are able to debate the bigger questions that the sheeple would not even think of, they're too busy listening to their silly pop music for that.

Grayson Wood
Grayson Wood

Can't these fuckers draw toes?
It's really creepy when sanic is depicted with human extremities.

Sebastian Cooper
Sebastian Cooper

haha wow nigger shoes are cool
yeah it's totally inconceivable that someone could know the origins of this design inspiration and still dislike it. don't you have a bull to prep?

Elijah Ward
Elijah Ward

These things

What's wrong with minions?

Tyler Evans
Tyler Evans

you're a homo

Bentley Clark
Bentley Clark

M-muh zabuza arc

Adam Reed
Adam Reed

why the fuck does Sonic have a god damn uni-eye

Kayden Carter
Kayden Carter

and still it's a boring ass design
Why do you think it's boring? That art grabbed my attention very strongly, and I'm sure I'd remember her if I played any Atelier games (assuming she has worthwhile characterization, naturally).
Ryuk
I see what you mean; I can't point to a single thing about Ryuk's design that objectively stands out (with the possible exception of the jester-like clothing or the bulging eyes and teeth), but he is memorable. I'd never confuse him for someone else.
Naruto doesn't look like a ninja
I mean, none of the characters in Naruto actually behave like ninjas. They're more like part-time superheroes, or warriors.

Jack Reyes
Jack Reyes

objectivity isn't a thing
Not really, it's more of a buzzword. Even in design, how you view a character will be clouded by your clothing tastes

Isaiah Jackson
Isaiah Jackson

Naruto was good for the very first arc you faggots
Naruto was only ever good for porn, same thing with Bleach and most anime that makes it to the United States.

Asher Williams
Asher Williams

Ch-Ch-CHIECKED

Ian Adams
Ian Adams

One I wish to fuck.

Oliver Martinez
Oliver Martinez

You know what they say about big feet.

Camden Nguyen
Camden Nguyen

No, what?

Oliver Lee
Oliver Lee

Yes. They say: squids don't have dicks.

Colton Foster
Colton Foster

Luckily his sprite doesn't look like that in game though his sprite is still shit.

Jackson Ortiz
Jackson Ortiz

Cuntboy!

Jordan Thompson
Jordan Thompson

you know as much shit as halo gets i'd still argue the bungie ones had solid designs, I don't know what in gods name is going on with these helmets.

Dominic Flores
Dominic Flores

talking shit about inklings

Inklings are some of the most solid designs I've seem in a video game, and you're talking shit about them. I legitimately don't understand how somebody could be so wrong about something.

Hudson Evans
Hudson Evans

I have not gotten far enough to see those stands, but I can assume the third pic is some sort of wear you down over time stand, either with vodoo pinpricks or some sort of debilitation and the last pic is a bulky protective one, all those plates being separate probably does something but I cant be sure what

Colton Gomez
Colton Gomez

"King Nail" isn't even its name. It's Nut King Call and let's Joshu disassemble people the same way that Bruno does in Part 4. As for Tusk, it lets Johnny shoot his fingernails. That's it.
He learns to infuse them with Spin so they're not just useless bullets

Adam Taylor
Adam Taylor

Tusk Act 4 is just spinning nails
Hahaha no

Aiden Thomas
Aiden Thomas

I never mentioned its name, but dissembling sounds like it would play out as an over time, wear you down style ability in jojo so I was right about that
the fat one being purely offensive surprised me but those individual detachable plates makes a lot of sense in hindsight considering its power

Jonathan Morris
Jonathan Morris

He was correcting me about Nut King Call because I confused the way his father's stand is named compared to his however Tusk Act 4 has nothing to do with Spinning his nails, it's a close combat stand that can achieve 「Infinite Energy」 meaning it can ORA ORA through time stop and dimensions and shit. Tusk Act 1 is the stand that lets him shoot and spin his nails.

Jack Barnes
Jack Barnes

Character design informing on the character is probably the biggest part of it.

Consider pic related. You have a girl with black hair, wearing a blue kimono with a red jacket over it. The character in question has a heavy Yin-Yang theme associated with her, and the design was done with that in mind. The red jacket (western) and blue kimono (eastern), hair that sits right on the boundary of "long for a boy, short for a girl", kind of flat but not a washboard, and so forth.

The OP character gets a lot of shit because it gives a lot of information, but not specific enough. He's loaded out with a lot of stuff - so maybe he's an adventurer? But then, the stuff he's carrying isn't supplies, it's just weapons and tools. Big book? A mage, maybe? But then he also has a sword, and the pizza cutter thing. The clothes look ridiculous, and not at all practical, which conflicts with the idea of an adventurer. Hell, he doesn't even have a backpack. And what's with those bucklers? Why is his only armor the gloves? The number of colors is also too varied.

If I wanted to portray "idealistic young adventuring hero" I would give him a suit of leather armor (>implying leather armor), with a large rucksack, a sword at his hip, and his hands on the rucksack straps to support it. He'd be smiling, have a clean look to him, and hair that's a bit messy. If I wanted to give that same character more experience - the second act of the story - I'd give him a heavy cloak (needed for rain), lighten his backpack (he only takes the essentials, being better at "living on the road"), and probably throw a bow on top as well. Drawing him with a shield on one arm and a helmet under his other, and his hair "flatter", would also do good. I'd throw a metal breastplate on, at the very least, and use duller lighting in an image. If I were to advance that character to "high level" - domain management level - he'd have a full set of armor, a symbol or insignia of some kind on his shield, and have a more ornately designed sword. Features would be hardened - a slight smile is there, but it's a man's smile, not a boy's grin - and his hair is no longer messy. There's no need for backpacks - supplies are on a horse - and he probably has a few faceless followers in the background. For other background imagery, putting these as a sequence, some basic Hero's Journey can be used - put him just outside the home village in the first one, with the sun rising behind him; in the depths of a dungeon or perhaps in the rain for the second (in the former case, giving him a torch - torches are good for images); and in front of a castle or whatever, with the sun setting, for the third.

Of course, that's all just the generic aspects. To get more specific, you can use the lighter touches. If you want to convey a character whose home was burnt down by a dragon, the first image might have no smiles, no backpack, and a burned cloak; the second might have a more angry/resolved look, and weapons proper to the task (a spear, for instance), while the third may have armor which gives a "this shit was crafted out of a dead dragon" look - shaped out of bone or whatever.

Kayden Butler
Kayden Butler

doesn't even use a good picture of Shiki
All those design choices you mentioned only make sense after the story has started and her character traits are expositioned to you. In addition her hair style is perfectly normal for a girl and women's hairstyles don't push androgynous territory until you get pixie cut tier. Granted her strange dressing style adds to the genre of the story she's in as she's a mysterious girl in a mystery setting, but her style of dress tells you very little about her. One of the main things Takeuchi is bad at is making his character designs anything more then one dimensional. Saber fare syndrome, lack of noses literally making the face one dimensional, etc. What he excels at is making distinct, memorable designs with tasteful pallets.

Aaron Howard
Aaron Howard

The style of dress part is literally something that's directly stated in the materials as having been part of Shiki's design.

As far as the picture, I just kind of grabbed one. As far as "good looking art" goes, Takeuchi's peak years were around the time the last Melty Blood art was being done. The characters are all distinctive, and you don't have to put up with any of his Saberface bullshit.

The males don't suffer from that, at least. If anything, they look a lot better now, since he's transcended gorilla arms.

Zachary Peterson
Zachary Peterson

the bungie ones had solid designs
Don't get me wrong, I liked the old designs. I'm mixed about Reach, but I don't remember hating anything like I did with the 343 armor designs. They really do know how to take an acceptable/good looking design and make it look like ass.

Jason Walker
Jason Walker

The style of dress part is literally something that's directly stated in the materials as having been part of Shiki's design.
Correct, you either need to read the story or read the materials to understand the design choice as opposed to vice versa where the design choice makes sense without any context.

Benjamin Anderson
Benjamin Anderson

I mean, I had a pretty solid idea of what sort of character I was going to be dealing with when I first looked at the design. That, and the fact it was distinctive enough for me to say "that's interesting". I'd challenge you to find a character design that doesn't make more sense in context than without it.

Nolan Jenkins
Nolan Jenkins

but dissembling sounds like it would play out as an over time, wear you down style ability in jojo so I was right about that
Literally any non direct damaging stand ability could be described as a wear down ability, then.

Tusk 4 is complicated, because there's lots of shit(horses, steel balls, squares, etc.) involved.
Despite having "infinite energy" it isn't that strong physically. The infinite energy can't be applied directly, it requires a 「Super Spin」 that involves all those complicated stuff. It results in moves powering through absolute barriers and if he hits something the right way, he can make something or someone spin forever, disregarding whatever external or internal forces that may try to stop the spin. The only thing that can stop the infinite spin is if he activates another infinite spin in the opposite direction.

Cooper Mitchell
Cooper Mitchell

I never stated that a design will be better without context but rather good character designs don't need context even if they look bizarre, nore do they need to convey much about the character, see here Ryuk is an example of a character whose design is incredibly memorable and good outside of context. The only definitive thing that Ryuk gives off is "otherworldly", once you start reading Death Note, you may decide that
oh yeah, he really does look like a death god
but without context it's a very memorable design that looks good even if you tells you barely anything about him. Artists can add notes all day with stuff like
I wanted to give Ryuk a nice large belt buckle to go with his glam rock tight leather pants as a show of how edgy and punk he is
or whatever the artist says, is why the artist chose to do something. But the reason that artist chose to do something, is just that, why he chose to do it, as opposed to how well the design conveys that, and whether or not a good design quality is based purely on it's ability to convey visual information.

Noah Sullivan
Noah Sullivan

quality is based purely on it's ability to convey visual information.
I meant to say how well it conveys information about the character visually fuck.

Tyler Hughes
Tyler Hughes

Oh, so you're referring to the necessity of "informs on design". I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of this:

Consider Ryuk. Now consider the little rat in pic related. Looking at the two, it's easy to imagine which one comes from a series called "Death Note", and which comes from a series called "Magical Girl Madoka Magica". If you asked the question, "Which of these is an amoral creature more or less responsible for pretty much all of the suffering in this show?", though, the answer of "both" might not be as immediately apparent if you had no context.

Both designs are strong, and visually have little similarity to each other. Except while one gives the impression of "this thing probably does not mean well", the other gives the impression of "oh look, a cute team pet". A design for a character very upright about what he's trying to do, and a design for a character that's basically tricking people. One a design to elicit the reaction "not really that bad of a guy", the other to elicit "don't make the fucking contract", once you're finished with the series.

This is what informing on a character is about. It doesn't necessarily tell you everything, but what it does say all makes sense for the character - it's not just haphazard. It can be upfront, or it can be hidden away, all as is appropriate to the story. It has a role in the story.

One of the strengths in Takeuchi designs, is that they don't really throw in bells and whistles, and tend to have a sense of internal consistency, like "red eyes = demi-god" and "blue hair = magic was involved" rather than just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks. How much of that is on the Nasu side I have no idea. But it means that if you know anything about the world itself, you can tell something about the character beforehand; much as how, in the real world, you can tell a bit about by someone just by running into them.

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