What are your thoughts on intersectionality?

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All types of ethnic nationalism are idpol m8

100% necessary

pic related knew how to do it

Why is "Oil," "Privilege," and "Representation" bigger than "Class"?

Sounds like a liberal made this.

Kindly explain what you meant by that

A meme

You see that fucking font?

It's SJW whimsy shit.

Would be happy to:

Sankara understood that women were the most oppressed group of people during the colonial rule of Upper Volta. He used it as part of his rhetoric during the revolution (inspired by how Castro and Che got support from peasants in Cuba) to rile up support. More importantly: he backed up his rhetoric by appointing women into positions in his army and the government they made after the revolution.

Basically, intersectionality helped Sankara win the revolution and improved lives in Burkina Faso.

SJWs should be shot on the spot

you mean priviledge

If that were anything remotely close to reality, it'd actually be better than the truth.

It's fine in the sense that we should be cognizant of how different groups can experience oppression in different ways ie. black and white men experience different class based oppression.

Regardless, most self-proclaimed "intersectionalist feminists," only have surface-level care about the intersections made apparent in their gentrified neighborhoods (except class, of course).

Class is More Intersectional than Intersectionality
imperiumadinfinitum.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/class-is-more-intersectional-than-intersectionality/
imperiumadinfinitum.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/class-is-more-intersectional-than-intersectionality/
imperiumadinfinitum.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/class-is-more-intersectional-than-intersectionality/

recognizing certain groups are more oppressed in class dynamics than others isn't intersectionality. It's what comes after that makes it idpol.

lol

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Don't you think that homophobia/racism/misogyny strengthen capitalism and bourgeois rule?

Malcolm X and MLK Jr. were anticapitalist, moreso towards the end of their lives. I think if they weren't assassinated the civil rights movement would have gotten more and more socialist.

Isn't that literally what intersectionally is? The recognition of how oppression changes its character depending on what "intersection" of various oppressed groups the individual is at?

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Sankara recognized that women in Upper Volta had unique disadvantages (genital mutilation, polygamy, and forced marriage) so he included women in the revolution and the resulting government to solve them. That's intersectionality.

this is exactly what has happened

I do.

They divide us, keep us weak, and pit us against each other, and divert criticism from capitalism and the State.

Awesome! So why not start with feminism/anti-racism/anti-homophobia? If we're actually doing those intersectionally, then it would naturally lead to criticism of capitalism and the state.

also could make radicalizing liberals easier

They had a cool coat of arms too.

good meme

Being snarky, are you. "Intersenctionality"/"IDpol" shit isn't bad as long as you have the framework to know what to do with. The problem is that the vast majority of people do not (thanks, capitalist education system and mainstream media!).

I spent my early to mid teens as a "social justice warrior" social democrat type. Understanding shit like police brutality is the result of the private prison industry and the police state which protects bourgeois society did wonders for my leftism.

If you can take real life things people face and show them how it's either perpetrated for/by the bourgeoisie or that it's a natural side effect of capitalism, they can be much more easily persuaded to leftism.

So I think what Lenin wrote in What Is To Be Done? helps to answer this:

"It cannot be too strongly maintained that this is still not Social-Democracy, that the Social-Democrat’s ideal should not be the trade union secretary, but the tribune of the people, who is able to react to every manifestation of tyranny and oppression, no matter where it appears, no matter what stratum or class of the people it affects; who is able to generalise all these manifestations and produce a single picture of police violence and capitalist exploitation; who is able to take advantage of every event, however small, in order to set forth before all his socialist convictions and his democratic demands, in order to clarify for all and everyone the world-historic significance of the struggle for the emancipation of the proletariat."

As leftists we must seize upon every opportunity to criticize the system and push struggle, even if it isn't directly related to working class economic struggle.

innocent police don't exist?

what are they guilty of?

What did this mando that he deserved to be murdered and his his child to grow up with no father?
twitter.com/patrickez01

Irrelevant to socialism and a very useful tool for capitalists in dividing up the proles. As soon as you start viewing things in terms of race or gender you lose sight of the real problem. Colorblindness is preferable in this regard.

Protecting porky and only porky.

I hate how the "intersectional" left makes me feel guilty of being white.

Half expect to get shot after a revolution just for being white.

If that's true then why has the fight against racism played a key role in the growth of communist parties throughout history?

The revolution will never happen if we don't address things like racism.

Please shut the fuck up

Why? Can't help my feels.

I see no point getting involved in left wing causes.

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Wow I really fucked up my arrows there. plz no bully

Colorblindness isn't enough for the left these days

they want self flagellation, dragging whites down to the lowest level and destruction of whiteness, all while elevating non-white cultures/peoples to the highest possible level

Recognizing and opposing racism (sexism, etc.) is not intersectionalism.

The radical left came up with a devilish scheme to 'right' racism: start being racist against white people so they "know how it feels" and stop doing it.

So many flaws in this, particularly that almost all white people aren't even racist. At this point everyone white is an enemy, and your only salvation is hate yourself. Or reject these hateful libshits and be proud of who you are.

LEARN OR FUCK OFF

Don't be absurd, "racism" against whites is just reactionary praxis, not some epic jewish conspiracy against you. To a black person, the white v black divide may seem very strong, as white individuals will often act prejudiced against them, and on average succeed more than them. It's hard to imagine that of all the black people, some won't get salty enough to start shit posting about anuddah shoah or some shit.

i don't really want to be proud of being white, i just want non whites to stop boasting about their skin colour and drop the arrogant tone. it's just fucking annoying. i agree that it aims for self hatred though. i try to push it out of mind but it gnaws at me

but this is just wrong

even from socialists i see this shit. it's just demoralising.

I think we're agreeing with each other really hard right now. I promise I wasn't trying to sound snarky. And I'm not a trash social democrat (fuckers killed Luxemburg).

I don't get why "SJW" is used like a bad term around here.

Comrade, you gotta stop feeding the trolls.

What fucking world do you live in that this happens often?

He probably spends too much time on Holla Forums or something. I only hear this kind of thing from people who aren't actually exposing themselves to people of different races and just watch MRA videos on youtube.

You are pathetic

Socdems and new green-left movements are often infested with identitarianism, but it is by no means an internal part of socialist ideology.
Denying the primacy of the class struggle is denying socialism.

Don't even try arguing with a nazi. Just ignore them or punch them.

happens online all the time and increasingly irl with shit like BLM

and why would I want to do that?

k

well come back when you can get these people to change

Sounds like you're on the wrong board. Please educate yourself or kindly leave.

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nah, i'm opposed to capitalism so i'm staying

I'm so sorry. I thought "hey I like this guy" at your first reply to me, and then by the second thought you were fuckin' with me and I felt betrayed.

brocialist.jpg

lol no prob. There's no tone on the internet so it can be hard.

there is literally nothing wrong with being a brocialist

i'm still yet to see anyone utter that word that isn't utterly reprehensible

Yeah my b

Intersectionality is the new colonial racism, it's a framework for explaining why everything is actually a feminist issue and white women are on the same level as the working class in developing worlds. It has no genuine process and no integrity as a system of thought, it can be used to justify anything.

In any subject that isn't about women, such as working class subjects that pertain to all genders of the working class, it's used to create divisions and insist on feminist nonsense as the only solution.

All feminism is completely incompatible with communism because it doesn't respect commie class consciousness, there is no such thing as 'bourgeois. there is only patriarchy, female pest-bourgeois especially non-whites are put right next to former slaves and families of migrant laborers while poor men, even disabled by a life of hard labor, are said to be 'above' petit-bourgeois women.

It is semantically identical to the belief that jews rule the world, and are all connected to the 1% through secret ethnic ties. It's bigoted garbage that has no place on the left whatsoever and you should do everything you can to destroy it before the left is completely overshadowed by neoliberal bullshit.

Intersectionality is what happens when retards realize that life is complex, that we're all individuals and our circumstances are all different … and then try to reduce that to a simple, equation that rejects the former realization painting people in the most racist, sexist etc. manner possible by focusing on superficial classification.

This. It's such an insufferable ideology. It upholds personal "lived experience" as mini-truths to be valued and unquestioned. Intersectionality leeches off of post-modernist thought. Post-modernism values subjective truth over objective truth. And that right there is why intersectionality is at complete odds with science: with science, especially the hard sciences, objective truth is the singular pursuit. Intersectionality sets up a system where scientists are allowed to give equal value to their subjective (biased) interpretation of reality, even when it may be at odds with objective facts. This already happens in the social sciences.

I don't know if you wrote that on purpose, but it is hilarious.

If you respect the police you're not a socialist

Obviously. That is why he is a Not Socialist.

nazis want a society with no police?

My favorite example of the problem with "lived experiences," is that some feminist I know was on FB trying to create her opinion on Fidel Castro, so she asked for the lived experience of Cubans. Of course, she lives in the US and only speaks English, so the only "lived experiences," she got were those of people descended from the Batistas, and none from actual Cubans or those who benefited from the anti-Imperialist actions of Fidel.

What you're describing is literally the exact opposite of intersectionality.

The point of intersectional feminism is to include more people (people of color, women in the majority world, trans-women, lesbians, and so on) and keep it from turning into white feminism.

Intersectionality in socialism is to make sure we're covering all forms of oppression.

TOP LEL
You're trolling aren't you?

go home r/socialism

I've heard all kinds of people say this. Probably mostly from people who weren't feminist.

Apparently they want a society with no reading classes.

I think identity politics divides people of the same material conditions, and if you want to unite lowerclass peoples of different backgrounds using class politics to unite the poor whites, poor blacks, and other poors against the rich is smarter.
But libs have been brainwashed into an eternal neoliberal oppression Olympics based on race, gender, sex, etc, which divides people and actually benefits capitalism through divided and conquer tactics.

You read some of the old black panther stuff, and even thought they had black pride, they realized that there were lower class white people and other lower class people.
Nowadays, its an eternal racial, or gender, or sex war against white men.

And you have to do a thought experiment, imagine you are some lower class white guy, got your job outsourced, live pay check to pay check, maybe got a prescription pill or heroin problem, live in the middle of nowhere. You turn on tv and its doing nothing but mocking you 24.7 if it even acknowledges your existence, liberals use classist language mocking you for being backwards, racist, rednecks. the rich outsource your job, the liberal media mocks you, and the liberals fight to protect waves of brown people who are sneaking into the country to take your job.

The real left no longer exists, it is replaced by a polite, identity politics obsessed, arrogant, elitist, neoliberlism who no longer knows what the word class or economics means and thinks that jethroe what lives in the trailer park has muh privilege because of his skin color, a liberal democratic party that colludes with hollywood, the corporations, the donor class, and the oligarchy.

So, along comes a guy that tells you he is going to make america great again.

The image is correct.
But base and superstructure are still a thing.

You should go to r/altright first, your rambling about feminism would really fit in there.

why is saying this ok but "colored person" isn't

Feminism was never about equality, it's always been about bored, upper-middleclass white women.

Is that why morbid obesity is now a "feminist" issue. When everything is a "feminist issue" nothing is.

Post studies pls. Feminism, sociology all of this garbage is based on navel-gazing, not actual data. That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

This implies that people see dudes on hormones as women and seek to "oppress" them in the same way, which is patently false. I bet you believe in "transmisogyny" too.

Internationality > intersectionality
polite sage

Incel megadetected

Fred Hampton is literally talking about intersectionality right there.

That's the point of intersectionality.

It's solidarity between different struggles.

I feel like it's a rehash of brown people instead of the old racist "colored people"
Idpol is a hell of a drug

Holla Forums you can fuck off now,you've sperged out enough

Intersectionality: tribes within tribes within tribes

I think intersectionality is pretty nice actually. It's just an analysis of how different systems of oppression overlap with each other.
For instance, a rich black woman in Texas may face subtle or not so subtle biases against her because of the color of her skin and gender and may result in marginal differences in wealth compared to her rich white and or male counterparts, but can easily afford all the necessities of life, and because of her wealth has opportunity to oppress others by capitalizing her wealth. In the event she needs an abortion, she can afford the travel and medical expenses to get one and can not worry about it anymore. A poor white woman in Texas, however, would probably not face any sort of discrimination for the color of her skin, however she would have difficulties being able to afford food, housing, medical care, etc for herself and possibly family. In the event she needed an abortion, she may not even be able to afford the time or expenses to travel to one of the few abortion providers in the state, and the later birth of her baby could financially ruin her life forever. A poor white man would not face the same gender discrimination as either of the women, would not face discrimination for the color of his skin, would not have any concerns about pregnancy (if they're single), but would still face the same issues of not being able to afford the necessities of life and would have very little control over his life.
The problems arise from how one interprets this information. The worst thing you could do is to ignore just how significant class is in these examples. The rich black woman might get a few insults every now and then and might make $400k instead of $450k a year, but that pales in comparison, for instance, to the poor white man who can't even make ends meet. Furthermore, even the gender differences between abortion are largely a problem because of capitalism. Only under capitalism could giving birth spell doom for an individual or even family.
As another example of poor analysis, you could see that on average poor black women make less money than poor white men, and you could strive to equalize that, but even if you succeed at that, they're still very poor and still have no control over their lives. You've solved nothing.
What's even worse is most SJWs don't even understand intersectionality to begin with and instead only look at single systems of oppression in isolation, then even try to add those up on an oppression score card and use that to try and act superior to everyone else with lower oppression points and distract from any actual issues, let alone class.

Because "colored" is associated with Jim Crow laws and signs above bathrooms and drinking fountains.

Whereas "people of color" is a term that they've chosen, themselves.

I might be wrong, but regardless: you should just be respectful of what oppressed groups want to be called.

Intersectionality as a concept, "things are complex and interrelated" isn't wrong, it's that its approached in the most unscientific way possible, and thus is completely useless. As others have pointed out, you can use it to justify whatever you want.

lol are you some kind of capitalist who thinks economics is a science?

mate, economics is a science. It's a social science but one none the less

No, that's just Marxism.

The various forms of oppression that exist is a result of the interactions in the labor process/social relations of production in capitalism, and its relationship with the superstructure. You can't solve or deal with various forms of oppressed social groups until you undermine the material basis firstly. You can't get rid of slavery through challenging the cultural values perpetuating it, you have to directly attack slavery itself. Intersectionalists don't do this, they believe that each group has their own unique "matrice" of oppression that only they can understand, and that in order to transcend these antagonisms, freedom has to be granted to these marginalized groups at the expense of other groups. All intersectionality does is perpetuate social antagonisms, and continually allow them to frolic so that it can perpetuate its own cycle. It defines itself on a false notion on what identity is, and believes itself, its own oppression to be unique to Capitalism itself; i.e. blacks will unite together on the basis of blackness, and so will women, and homosexuals, and etc. Intersectionality in a sense makes it impossible to discuss the problems regarding class dynamics involving the proletariat and the bourgeoisie in regards to the alienation of labor, as you have now enmeshed identity as a new form of oppression. Race can't be discussed without gender, which can't be discussed without in regards to sexuality, etc.

Intersectionality was never about transcending boundaries regarding identities, it's about solidifying the antagonistic relationships regarding society by further entrenching the definitions of what it means to belong to certain groups, and the impermanence of marginalized identities like blackness. In essence, one can't define the concept of a universal proletariat as it doesn't exist anymore, what is in its place is now several groups of oppressed proletariat each vying for their own emancipation from the struggles of capitalism as their unique oppression makes them intrinsically more important for the need to liberate than others. In a sense, being black is more important than being proletariat, and black liberation is more important than proletariat liberation; the universally alienated worker doesn't exist as it is enmeshed in the matrices of oppression regarding identity, and it's only through specific group liberation that these forms of oppression will vanish.

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A science follows the scientific method, which sociology has been moving away from for years.

Science must also involve some form of math. It doesn't have to be complex math, but if your "science" doesn't include some numbers (i.e. statistics), it's likely solipsistic garbage.

No, the modern left is nothing but reeing about identity politics.
He was talking about class politics, something the liberals no longer acknowledge after they lost the cold war.

"WHAT, YOU WORK IN A COAL MINE INA APPALACHIA YOU CIS WHIT muh privilegeD MAN REEEEEEEEEEEE"- modern left

" YOU SHOULD BE PLEASED WITH BORDER DESTROYING TRAD DEALS THAT OUTSOURCED YOUR JOB YOU RACIST REDNECK REEEEEEEE"- modern left

"I CANT WAIT TILL YOU BECOME A MINORITY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY MAYBE THEN WE CAN VOTE IN MORE NEOLIBERALS"- modern left

"LETS GO READ HARRY POTTER BOOKS AND LISTEN TO BEYONCE, THATS HOW YOU DO A REVOLUTION"- modern left

whoo boy

I should add that intersectionalists treat identities as static things insofar as they do not change in regards to technology, culture, and history. Blackness, Homosexuality, and Womeness and etc which is a form of appearance in regards to the labor process of society is reduced to a static identity incapable of being addressed until it's meted with liberation within the system itself. Intersectionality is pure bourgeois individualism as everything becomes a matter regarding a politics of difference. It simply creates a bunch of naturalized identities and abstracts them from the social and material basis regarding these identities, and turns them away from their historical context.

In short, Intersectionality abstracts the labor process from capitalism and divorces identities from this context in order to perpetuate false consciousness onto the proletariat. I can't see this garbage as being anything, but garbage.

No it's not you fucking idiot.

Thought it would look cool with feet

Interesting mode of analysis with undesirable results in practice because people will always oversimplify it into oppression olympics.

why lol? they're not oppressed anyway

This thread is infested with idpol dumbfuckery.

Because according to you city "socialists" everybody not in a major metropolitan area is a reactionary homophobic miso-gynist and should die.

Q: Then why aren't most post-modernists/neoliberals socialist now?
A: Because that's not how it works.

Identity politics eventually becomes focused on self-flagation of the "oppressors" and class collaboration of the "oppressed".
It doesn't lead to a criticism of capitalism because it's simply focused on the culture (created by capitalism).

Also:
Don't just post snarky bullshit, post pdfs or links to articles that talk about it.

>>>/tumblr/
If you want to talk about feminism then talk about it in the framework of marxism, anarchism or any other non-liberal, non-pomo (post-modernist) framework.

Sounds good. I'm a trans-racialist and my preferred pronoun is ni–er. Not calling me that is psychological violence.
Also, can you tell people that intentionally misgendering people trans-people isn't violence? It's a dick move, no doubt, but it's not violence.

Civil Rights/Anti-racism=================/=============intersectionality

"people of color" is racist and liberal as fuck, stop using it.

Horrible liberal that is destructive to the left. While the followers of the ideology of "intersectionality" think that what they are doing is for the good of all and have largely benevolent intentions what happens in effect is that it does nothing but divide the sections of the working class, pit them against each other and even make some groups susceptible to the right's hateful propaganda.

The end result of "intersectionality" is the working class not being able to pose much if any threat to the capitalist class, this is why it is common to see capitalists funding and supporting such groups as they know that it helps keep the working class from rising up against them.

Provide proofs please.

Capitalist fund and support them, because they are terrified of them, look at what happened to that sneaker brand that tweeted something positive about a Trump policy.

No you just fucked a guy up the ass you degenerate pig

Idpol is for bug people

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Nobody is this stupid. Fuck off.

Remember what happened to firefox when it's CEO donated to a church that was against gay marriage?

They're terrified of that.

Funny joke.