Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?I was reading this...

Michael Barnes
Michael Barnes

Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?

I was reading this (http://www.blue-reflections.net/ragecandybar/projects/pokegods/) and remembered the old days when people would make massive theories about video games. Saying there may or may not have been shit in a game, back when games felt far more alive. half of that mystery is gone these days because dataminers and lets player faggots who make clips showcasing every secret in a game. We'll never have shit like mysteries, fake rumors, or that bullshit "cryptid hunting" that was popular with the GTA games.

The worst part is there's no real way to fix this, is there? No one is gonna just not datamine if you ask them.

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.blue-reflections.net/ragecandybar/projects/pokegods/)
Charles Long
Charles Long

No one is gonna just not datamine if you ask them
They probably will if you tell them you're a journo.

Daniel Jackson
Daniel Jackson

Yes and no

Landon Ortiz
Landon Ortiz

yes

every game that tried to hide secrets in recent years got datamined, it's inevitable at this point.

Jack Nelson
Jack Nelson

Remember when the BoI dev got super assblasted when his whole ARG was fucked over by somebody who edited hex values?

Robert Ross
Robert Ross

The long and short of it is Yes.

No matter how cryptic or well-hidden something is, even if explicit meta-consequences are made clear for data-mining, it's going to happen with anything but a small cult following; and even then places like reddit specialize in ruining communities and mysteries whether or not they have anything to do with the subject, or in this case have even played the game.

See: Undertale, Payday 2, Binding of Isaac, and other recent releases that tried to have some real mysteries in their game. Every time they were datamined, and the creators either completely cut the content or punished the community.

Anthony Martin
Anthony Martin

datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games
I really dont get this, people are going to explore and find secrets in games one way or the other. Why stop adding them because some faggots can datamine? Thats fucking retarded

Colton Parker
Colton Parker

why spend hours making a hedgemaze if people are just gonna cut right through it
I can understand the sentiment but at least some devs still do it. I think there are some secrets going down in the hat in time game last I heard.

Jeremiah Green
Jeremiah Green

In Undertale's case datamining made people more interested, because the dev hid some cool stuff in the game.

Kevin Campbell
Kevin Campbell

You cant tell me more than 0.01% of a playerbase is going to datamine

Joshua Cruz
Joshua Cruz

Dev spergs out and doesn't do any further updates, leaving the ARG incomplete
You know this doesn't count yet you did it anyways for your undertale meme.

Sebastian Howard
Sebastian Howard

Is there a way to counteract datamining?

Connor Morales
Connor Morales

What the fuck was Toby's problem?
He was as big a lolcow as his game's following.

Alexander Morgan
Alexander Morgan

This kills much more than just mysteries. Everyone will know the best way to do everything and the best setups and best routes and the best gear and the best tactics, just because autists put everything to a wiki and google will find it in 2 seconds.

There's many kinds of games you can't even have because of this.

Daniel Cox
Daniel Cox

The issue isn't if devs should add secrets in the first place. It's that whatever secrets they add can be easily checked and discovered in the first week. There's no more sprawling mystery with games, or mysteries that may or may not be discovered. There's no wondering "Is there a secret Monster in this dungeon?" because dataminers already tested and had the answer shortly after launch. And they know exactly how to trigger and discover it if it's there, or instantly disprove it.

Where before games felt a lot more dynamic and "anything is possible", it simply isn't the case anymore.

Easton Edwards
Easton Edwards

If a game required connecting to a server you could hide things in the server. Downside is that the game would be online only.

Benjamin Hernandez
Benjamin Hernandez

It depends on exactly what you're trying to do; a secret level? A meta-horror or mystery? A message from the developer?

Assets can be uncovered, encryptions can be busted, and text read in plain the moment they are used in-game.

This is the real casualty of data-mining and fandomfaggotry; there's no exploration, mystery, or community anymore. It's too all accessible and estranged; to the point where people trust wikis over developers.

Cooper Anderson
Cooper Anderson

image
Which is the better waifu? Left or right?

Christopher Smith
Christopher Smith

I'm not just talking about the datamining, I mean Toby really flipped out a lot.
I remember he got really angry and ranted on Twitter when he didn't win an award for Undertale.

Ryan Davis
Ryan Davis

My bad, was meant for

Toby was a huge autist, I'll give you that, but I don't think anyone could handle the kind of attention something like Undertale brought.
I certainly wouldn't want to be mailed porn of my creations at my home address by Tumblr.

Ethan Butler
Ethan Butler

encryptions can be busted
Isn't that incredibly hard depending on the encryption?
I know Denuvo gets busted back and hell but certainly its not actually impossible to make data unreachable enough that nobody will bother.

Hunter Moore
Hunter Moore

Look deep within your heart. You already know the answer.

Luis Hill
Luis Hill

people will see the harder encryption as a challenge, not a wall.

Anthony Robinson
Anthony Robinson

You can't properly encrypt anything because the game must have the key in there somewhere in order to read the data.

Andrew King
Andrew King

The issue isn't that the encryption itself can be cracked (and it can be, the game has to use those files), it's that even with it you can't protect your game from curious autists and attention-hungry faggots poking at values and finding assets.

Jack Lee
Jack Lee

Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?
There is actually a simple way to fix or at least mitigate this problem.
The entire game industry is just too retarded to think of it.

So first off, the game industry is retarded, which means they're desperately trying to protect their copyrights from piracy.
So they try to encrypt their game data WITH THE INTENT OF PROTECTING IT FROM COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
Protecting the game's secrets is secondary to this goal.
They encrypt ALL of the code and ALL of the data under one key, so this ALL has to be decrypted to play the game at all.
The game data gets decrypted into RAM in order to play it, so data miners pick up the data in RAM, and bam, RIP most/all of your game's secrets, regardless of whether players have even played through the whole game yet.
Oh, and great job protecting that copyright from infringement!

OK, so imagine for a minute, that we try to encrypt some of our game data WITH THE INTENT OF KEEPING SECRET DATA SECRET.
Not all of the game's data needs to be kept secret, so we can construct our game so that most of the game can be played while keeping secret content still encrypted.

Then, what about the key to unlock the encryption? What do we do about that?
This depends on what you intend to do with your game, but there's a couple options:
Don't put the key in the game anywhere. Release the key at a later date.
Put the key in the game, but have it split into different pieces. For example, have player collect 6 items and set them in a certain order. ID values associated with items form the key to plug into the decryption algorithm.
With the above example where key is placed in the game, dataminers have to traverse the different parts of the game code/data where it explains how to form the decryption key in order to decrypt the data, so dataminers end up effectively "playing the game" much like players would.
And until the first player/dataminer decrypts the data and uploads the secret onto the Internet, the secret remains secret, as it is encrypted.

In other words, the gaming industry, in its futile attempts to protect against copyright infringement, has failed to protect both copyright infringement and game secrets.
If they'd give up on protecting copyright (which they can't protect anyways) and actually tried to protect their game secrets, they could succeed.
I mean, just look at Pokemon nowadays, they aren't even trying to hide their event Pokemon, even though the 3DS has a system for updating games.

William Russell
William Russell

It's just the general spread and normalfagfication of the internet, not secluded to gaming only. It became too easy to share and overexpose information, which support's normalfags' shiteating taste for fast and lowest denominator entertainment.

James Butler
James Butler

You cant tell me more than 0.01% of a playerbase is going to datamine
No more than 0.01% ‘’needs’’ to datamine.
Hell, if a game has 80,000,000 million players and only 1 of them datamines, that’s all it takes. Because that dataminer is going to get on Reddit or 4chan or Youtube and post every single secret he extracted, then some wacko liberal (((gamejourno))) is gonna report on it for clicks, and the experience is ruined for everyone else.
Do you not remember the bitchfit Edmund McMillen threw when guys just cracked BoI for the time-released goodies he was planning to breadcrumb post-Afterbirth launch? The sheer hoops he went through to keep the content of his replacement ARG offline to preserve the process of investigation?
I can’t believe the same community so proud of themselves for causing the Boston Salt Party is so uncomprehending of the simple fact that easy spoilers ruin the joy of speculation or discovering something for yourself, which in turn discourages devs and players from making or getting excited for surprises, Easter eggs, and theorycrafting in the future. Are you really that retarded?

Alexander Hughes
Alexander Hughes

I want to explore her womb
if you know what I mean

Wyatt Nguyen
Wyatt Nguyen

dont look at datamine dumps, dont watch lets plays of the games you're interested in. is it really so difficult? you fags have no friends so it's not like they'd ruin it for you either.

James Edwards
James Edwards

It still gets annoying when you're trying to discuss a game in a thread and instead of someone booting up the game to check on something that gets brought up, they just open the wiki in a new tab.

Robert Stewart
Robert Stewart

MUH SEEEEEEEEEEEECKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Henry Hall
Henry Hall

I used to datamine for warframe, and I've done it for countless games since 1994.

AMA

I did it for the warframe general on the old board, and when they bitched about it (it was them who asked and complained to begin with, as well as a reddit crossposter who took credit for it on reddit), I stopped.

To short circuit a few questions, the reason people do it is the same reason some people get wrapped up in the mysteries. The big difference is that the people who datamine are intent on getting answers instead of speculating and then masturbating at one another with those speculations.

Ayden Reyes
Ayden Reyes

The worst part is there's no real way to fix this, is there?
If you think about it, From software's games do this with their plots. Everything is hidden in plain sight. You can't just crack open the game and watch a cutscene, you have to go to the boss room, look at the walls and see what's lying around before you can tell what happened. This kind of shit is probably the last way we'll be able to have "secrets" in the game.

Jack Robinson
Jack Robinson

Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?
No. What killed that is publishers and developers aiming for a minimum viable product to maximize profit. There's nothing to explore anymore, it's just an A to B cinematic joyride.

Anthony Hughes
Anthony Hughes

Definitely agreed. I mean I can see that datamining can do harm, but honestly sometimes they handle it so bad you feel completely apathetic to it all.

I'd agree but we're forgetting how much the internet keeps shit from being secret even with no datamining.

Jace Murphy
Jace Murphy

Technically speaking, it was unfinished stuff that he made an easter egg, it never was intended to be features.
But then everything changed when the TransMale Burkha wearing asgore attacked

Gavin Sullivan
Gavin Sullivan

secrets don't exist

Wyatt White
Wyatt White

Not canon, nor is there any correlation or evidence that this is Gaster.

Charles Hernandez
Charles Hernandez

This really makes me think…
Is the internet ruining videogames?

Liam Martinez
Liam Martinez

It's more that shitty hipster ruins videogames, rather than the internet as a tool

Josiah Harris
Josiah Harris

its ruining more than just videogames

Asher Ward
Asher Ward

Think about it tho.
Walkthroughs
Let's Players
Youtube oriented games
Game journos
Kikestarter
Datamining
Piracy leading to unreasonable DRM measures
Toxic fanbases possibly ruining a game you could've liked if you just played it
Spoilers

Bentley Morgan
Bentley Morgan

Things that shitty people do, yeah?
I mean someone could shove a screwdriver up their ass, that doesn't make every screwdriver shitty.
Just that screwdriver in particular

Brody Gray
Brody Gray

Secrets and Rewards in videogames died when cheevos became a thing.

Liam Parker
Liam Parker

This I can agree with a little more, external reward systems in general bad

Matthew Flores
Matthew Flores

Yes but screwdrivers will soon be made illegal if they're mostly used for stabbing, don't you think?
Name one way the internet has improved games.

Adam Johnson
Adam Johnson

Rumors still exist today, just like in the early internet, but debunks are easier to find and we are just too old to fall for most hoaxes. Everything is very easy to verify, so you don't have to check whether or not it's real in the actual game. I guess that's it.

But I agree with the general point. The internet is too big nowadays, so information spreads too easily and is therefore harder to not find than to actually find. Kinda kills the mystery sometimes, when you know all of the content in a game before you even play it.

Robert Gonzalez
Robert Gonzalez

Make it so the secret requires people to find some additional file from a website you control with no direct reference to ingame.
Problem solved.

Matthew Nguyen
Matthew Nguyen

pay someone to stab people with screwdrivers
oy vey, we need to ban screwdrivers for your protection guy!

Thomas Cook
Thomas Cook

I'd like to see anyone trying to make that happen often enough to spread a panic.

Ethan Murphy
Ethan Murphy

They have dicks, don't they?

Lincoln Martinez
Lincoln Martinez

It sounds like you want them to.

Christopher Collins
Christopher Collins

The internet and all of its various communities are opt-in. It's not mandatory that you read a game's wiki while playing it.

Henry James
Henry James

I ask again, because the first time around all the Spoiler Brigade Apologists just ignores me: What can be done about guys who enter forum/imageboard threads where you and your buddies are bantering and theorycrafting about the possible secrets within a game and spam you with all the datamined definitive content in the game code?
Do the words Boston Salt Party mean nothing to you? They shouldn’t; we’re in the place that caused it.

Landon Powell
Landon Powell

has something some faggot that plays with games instead of plays games ruined games
No.

Blake Cox
Blake Cox

buddies

Grayson Garcia
Grayson Garcia

Answer the question.

Matthew Bailey
Matthew Bailey

Yep.

That's why I just play traditional games and write all of my GMing notes in a nonsensical format so, even if my players decide to get screwy, they'll never really know.

Nicholas Morgan
Nicholas Morgan

Actually, it's easy.

Just make your game available only as GameFly-like streaming service, so that no assets ever actually exist on a player's machine at all.

Jackson Brooks
Jackson Brooks

spam you with all the datamined definitive content in the game code
Most of the time it's just information about the plot that is spammed, which is really fucking easy to avoid if you aren't a complete idiot

Easton Perry
Easton Perry

Stop being homosexual gossip queens and perhaps play the video games. Must be a younger class and require a crutch to even check the controls without an in-game tutorial. Raised on ecelebs where the mainstream pull is it's hip to be bad at things.

Jordan Morgan
Jordan Morgan

you are on Holla Forums, user

Cameron Butler
Cameron Butler

there is, user
you know how pokemon red blue and yellow tend to glitch out in certain ways when you do certain things?

well, just write the game's code to achieve things by "glitching out" in such a way that it doesn't seem glitchy, and perhaps dataminers won't find it

Bentley Rogers
Bentley Rogers

Yeah, but there is another word for that
Always-online DRM

Grayson Hall
Grayson Hall

Or simply hide your engine under several layers of encryption like square enix usually does.
The point of it should be to slow the dataminers down, since they're bound to crack the thing eventually.

Xavier Ramirez
Xavier Ramirez

They don't look at the game's code, they look at other files.

Dominic Russell
Dominic Russell

Video games are for fun. Secrets and surprises and mysteries are fun. Why the fuck are you playing video games if not to have fun?

Juan Kelly
Juan Kelly

oh well then heres an idea
make it an MMO and put the files detailing enemies and maps and items and such on the server side

Thomas Harris
Thomas Harris

If you get that angry over someone spoiling "secrets" in the internet about the game, why are you even discussing it?

Dylan Scott
Dylan Scott

You're still going to have to have an installation and call for information from the server, user.

Xavier Thomas
Xavier Thomas

There is just one viable way: Make it exclusive to non-breached consoles like the PS4. At least last i checked you can't get access to the files of its games.

Jaxon Torres
Jaxon Torres

Would it be possible to include a bunch of extra shit unrelated to what your doing to throw off data miners?

Landon Hughes
Landon Hughes

We'll never have shit like mysteries, fake rumors, or that bullshit
There are a lot of fake rumors for Devil May Cry when /cgg/ was a thing on 4chan. This was the most obnoxious thing and one of the reasons why I don't interact with other Devil May Cry players or fans nowadays when previously I would be willing to.

Aiden Phillips
Aiden Phillips

There's the original halo gun model in the files of Demon's Souls. Don't think it would "throw off" dataminers though, they are sifting through a lot of unintelligible data as it is.

Oliver Martin
Oliver Martin

Or just have data that looks like it's used somewhere else. One of the characters from Pokken Tournament wasn't revealed because the dataminers through it was an assist instead of an actual fighter.

Andrew Torres
Andrew Torres

I don't get your point OP. The devs put in the secrets to be found. Just because people either cheat or find them by data mining in a way that the dev wanted them to find it, the dev has obtained the goal of having the players find the secret.
That falls within the players getting smarter. The dev will need to find a way to hide things from the dataminers. I suggest some huge metashit like checks that make sure you're playing the game and not noclipping through shit.

John Parker
John Parker

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be destroyed by the truth.

David Allen
David Allen

I remember he got really angry and ranted on Twitter when he didn't win an award for Undertale.
Post caps you magnificent fuck, I gotta see this.

Jonathan Walker
Jonathan Walker

Games exclusively on unhacked consoles will be immune until it's figured out how to dump them, which could take years. Games which use proprietary compression algorithms, or procedurally generate shit like textures, would slow down autists. If an MMORPG dev cared they'd avoid sending secrets to the client. Wasn't there recently some MMO space game where faggots discovered unexpected alien life and then a bit later saw an alien ship?

Hudson Garcia
Hudson Garcia

Nothing to be done about it. That age is over. Now we have cheavos, loot crates, gamer fuel, twitchfags, cam whores. You deserve to have your games ruined.

Gabriel Ramirez
Gabriel Ramirez

crying about spoilers

Oliver Nelson
Oliver Nelson

That's literally how MMOs already work. Unless you mean "Make an MMO that doesn't store any files clientside", in which case you fuck yourself and your players over by having them constantly requesting resources from the server, nuking everyone's bandwidth. Which is fucking stupid.

Robert Carter
Robert Carter

No, I fucking hated the retarded superstition period of gaming where kids lied to each other about shit they saw. Now you can easily disprove retards who lie for attention.

Landon Morales
Landon Morales

sauce?

Adrian Turner
Adrian Turner

Yeah, but not 4/v/ you faggot.
I like straight lewds, I'm okay with gay (2D) lewds, but for whatever reason futa is a massive turn off.

David Wright
David Wright

Feelings of mystery and exploration, both in video games and the real world, were crushed by the information age. I can't think of a single urban legend or anything comparable that came about after the mid 90s due to how easy it became to mass communicate with others on the internet. Secrets and easter eggs in video games are no different.

Zachary Clark
Zachary Clark

Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?
No. Judaism did.

Anthony Parker
Anthony Parker

read the thread
a bunch of autists saying that they can't enjoy exploring games because there's a guide somewhere out there and they can't help but spoil their own fun instead of playing the fucking game
Yeah well nevermind you're all huge faggots.

Xavier Rogers
Xavier Rogers

That's called not being a child anymore you imbecile, this happens to everyone, not just in your snowflake millennial decade you spastic.

Jackson Phillips
Jackson Phillips

The internet has no effect on the real world
Get a load of this faggot
I bet last time you went out of your home was to take a dump since your bathroom is too full of garbage bags and shit everywhere

Jonathan Barnes
Jonathan Barnes

You have to admit its not the same if you have to keep yourself from looking it up. If it really intrigues you, you'll eventually do it anyway.
For example it's possible that there is some use for the Yharnam Stone in Bloodborne but someone has yet to find it, you don't get these kinds of mysteries with datamining.

Christopher Flores
Christopher Flores

Are you aware that you're blaming other people for your own shortcomings in general and weak character specifically? Don't get me even started on the whole idea of somehow forcing people not to do that like some communist totalitarian shithole dictator.

Robert Wright
Robert Wright

For example it's possible that there is some use for the Yharnam Stone in Bloodborne but someone has yet to find it, you don't get these kinds of mysteries with datamining
Good, supersitious console shitters are obnoxiously stupid, and this kind of shit just leads to clickbait everywhere, especially on Jewtube. The fact that this is dead is objectively good for the industry, stop being a nostalgic fuck.

Caleb Hill
Caleb Hill

Don't be so dense, you can shut yourself off from the world and say "Ooh, i wonder what happend in 1949 in China", that doesn't make it a mystery. It is a difference if you can speculate about it with others and no one actually knows it, or you're just not wanting to look it up.

going to youtube
watching that kind of content
Even more of these kinds of videos appear ABOUT the datamining results, your point is shit

Joseph Clark
Joseph Clark

Datamining is one of the least cancerous problems to appear in modern games, and not worth complaining about. It increases the longevity of the game and gives people something to explore.

Lincoln Rogers
Lincoln Rogers

No, your point is shit, my still stands that you're a superstitious retard.

Christian Lewis
Christian Lewis

Congrats on learning a new world, doesn't make any sense here though

Kayden Williams
Kayden Williams

Wikis ruined secrets and exploration if you have no willpower. Look what happened to WoW once wowhead was created, all people did was search the quest and beeline for the spot. Then that was integrated into the addons itself, so you really never had to think. Now almost every game has quest/objective markers so you don't have to think about where you need to go. There's no chance to get lost.

Cooper Thomas
Cooper Thomas

To avoid dataminers, you'd have to either create a difficult to decrypt game file, which BoI did effectively for quite some time, or you can have server-side content. You could also try disc-locked content, but that's even worse than server-side.

Other options include using seemingly ordinary objects to try something funny. For example, if you want bloody text on a wall, instead of making a texture for REDRUM, make 5 different letters and place them, thus making it look like something else. Obviously, a better example is needed.

Though the best way is strong cryptography. If you had something like Denuvo was day-1 in terms of difficulty to crack, and used it only to lock off access to certain files with no slow down

Nicholas Cooper
Nicholas Cooper

If you like unsolved mysteries so much, go dive head first into hardcore magic or hardcore science. Only primordial things can have anything mysterious about them, nothing that's been intelligently designed has any mystery in it, by the fucking definition.

Jonathan Turner
Jonathan Turner

hardcore magic
wew

nothing that's been intelligently designed
How about human history? There are a lot of mysteries there, and its not primordial. Same thing goes for the creation of art, like the recent talks of a possibility of a second nude drawing of the Mona Lisa existing. So really that would also go for video games.

Ryan Lee
Ryan Lee

Edmund please go

Brayden Taylor
Brayden Taylor

Little to no information is available about human history so it might as well been primordial, it's basically the same as the universe history except shorter.
possibility of a second nude drawing of the Mona Lisa existing
Yeah I can imagine vagina-bestowed dumbfucks would make up that sort of shit just for gossip. Which makes me thing, is that what you're after? Just pointless speculation? Then clearly magic is your thing.

Brody Hill
Brody Hill

When the Archeage was released in Russia and someone made a translation patch, I had a ton of fun with a /vg/ group. We had no clue what we were doing, there was no wiki, no maps, nothing. Basic mechanics were spread by word of mouth. We manually combed the seafloor for wrecked ships because there were no maps of where they spawned. It was a glorious time.

It certainly helped that the game itself was gorgeous and the map was really well-crafted, with a fair number of hidden and comfy areas, and that you could go pretty much anywhere you wanted.

Cameron Hughes
Cameron Hughes

snowflake millenial decade
20 years before current year
not actually refuting anything i sad
being this much of a faggot
New urban legends/rumors/etc were always developing and spreading since the dawn of fucking time regardless of whether or not people grew up. The internet becoming widespread is what killed it, dunce.

Zachary Hall
Zachary Hall

Yeah spread of the internet also killed the lochness lake monsters and yetis and alien abductions. Because it only takes one thorough debunking, and the more there are people the higher the odds of one of them being capable of producing such rebuttal.

Jackson Phillips
Jackson Phillips

Yeah I can imagine vagina-bestowed dumbfucks would make up that sort of shit just for gossip
The painting exists, the question is if it's actually her

Nicholas Rogers
Nicholas Rogers

My point exactly.

Robert Bennett
Robert Bennett


This basically

Julian Martinez
Julian Martinez

"That kid" type of people can't make up blatantly false information and spread it to impressionable retards

Oh no, what a loss!

Nathaniel Roberts
Nathaniel Roberts

Didn't you get the memo? OP and anyone defending him are those kids

Hudson Rodriguez
Hudson Rodriguez

On the one hand, I agree with you because I never read guides or wikis or let's plays and don't spoil games for myself.

On the other hand, I'm a completely fucked up schizoid who goes for week at a time without seeing another human being and I don't care to socialize like most people do. So maybe "LOL so don't talk to anyone, asshole!" isn't a reccomendation most can follow.

Alexander Price
Alexander Price

I don't get this excuse. If the devs really want to do secrets they will, and you gain or lose nothing if some faggot ass streamer or dataminer reveals it.
Unless you're a viewer or follower of said faggot ass.

Aaron Stewart
Aaron Stewart

Get this fucking flag off of me

Jace Garcia
Jace Garcia

They don't do that, but the amount of dataminers that can reverse engineer compiled code and the will to do so is very very very very low.

I got the Dark Souls dialogue off of the bluray before it was released on PC. It can be done, but very few people had PC bluray players and time to work through the encryption and sort out filetypes as well as convert them into something usable.

Oliver Jackson
Oliver Jackson

This. Mysteries in games are dumb because they aren't real mysteries, but merely forced, artificial ones where the answers are not just unquestionably known, they're withheld for no greater purpose than the sake of being mysterious. That's the worst, most pointless kind of mystery, and I'm glad that the internet and datamining have ruined that kind of "mystery," especially in the cases where the mysteries were probably just created for publicity and attention. You want your game to get noticed and stay on people's minds for a while? Then focus on making a legitimately good game instead of some tantalizing fake mystique through vagueness and obfuscation. Tactics other than legitimate quality should fail, and if datamining can negate even one, good for it. Just too bad datamining can't also negate huge ad campaigns and press manipulation too.

Mason Martin
Mason Martin

Procedural Generation could be an answer but I even need to mention one big flop who tried it and failed spectacularly? Especially if you try to generate riddles instead of terrain and Spore-tier creatures.

Kayden Foster
Kayden Foster

It's the internet, not necessarily datamining. The solution is to bury the internet, and go back to distributing games on CDs (DVDs now I guess) and personal contact instead of forums.

Jason Gonzalez
Jason Gonzalez

I think Undertale could be a good example of that, just throw in as much stupid shit as possible, along with the secret, make it LOOK like it could be some super spooky DEEPEST lore shit that's hidden away in the game, and watch as the retards flail about desperately trying to connect the pieces to a fake puzzle.

Cooper Barnes
Cooper Barnes

I know this goes against the point of the thread, but did anyone ever datamine Shadow of the Colossus? That game felt so huge and mysterious to me. I finished it so many times but always felt like there was something hidden away.

Jacob Lopez
Jacob Lopez

tcrf has, lots of unused shit behind the curtain, no bosses though, but plenty of unused/unfinished ares that were at one time suppose to accommodate them

Nathaniel Harris
Nathaniel Harris

lurk some moar

Leo Watson
Leo Watson

I saw a video uncovering all unused assets of Bloodborne some months ago. It's breached as fuck, mate.

Benjamin Brown
Benjamin Brown

And then you have the fake canon those retards came up with becoming the generally accepted canon.

Jack Perez
Jack Perez

IIRC Doctor Who writers decided to basically use some 1990s usenet fan theory to explain why he is called the Doctor.

Hunter Ross
Hunter Ross

Name one way the internet has improved games.
It's easier to shitpost about them

Adam Lewis
Adam Lewis

In Undertale 2, Sans is officially Ness.

Grayson Reed
Grayson Reed

Well you can lock the games data down on certain types of hardware to prevent datamining, but then you get the autistic everything I don't like is drm except the identical thing i do like autists.

Samuel Wilson
Samuel Wilson

Absolutely. MGSV had a heap of theories going into it, then GZ came out on PC and gave it away. Luckily I figured out Medic was Big Boss before this, but this pic was undeniable proof of the whole imposter Snake/Boss theory.

Sebastian Clark
Sebastian Clark

IIRC, the usenet retard that posted that theory about why he's called the Doctor was actually Stephen Moffat, and he wrote his fan-canon in to the show.
Which to be fair was not a terrible reason for his name to be what it is, it's just Moffat writes like shit and completely ham-fisted the whole thing. It could have been done much better.

Dylan Gonzalez
Dylan Gonzalez

Self-modifying code and assets generated on the fly (you might even throw in a few XORs to fuck up dataminers). However, I don't believe that many game developers are up to the task.

Brandon Fisher
Brandon Fisher

so they cut out some dudes working eye, just to help with ruse? thats fucked up

Hudson Garcia
Hudson Garcia

It's not always online if you only need to get the required file once user.

Charles Baker
Charles Baker

Encryption is doable with online-games. You just fragment content in packages, encrypt them individually and only send the key to a package over once a player becomes elligible for that content.

You will still get guides on youtube&co of course once the first player manages to enter said content but it would kill the whole datamined even before release aspect

Benjamin Diaz
Benjamin Diaz

Also, remember that datamine can't find everything. There's been a 'secret' found recently in the NES Mike Tyson's Punch Out over 20 years after its release. So it's up to developers to create the kinds of secrets that datamine can't find.

Luis Reyes
Luis Reyes

One of my thoughts right now is Overwatch datamining. I don't even play the games personally but I'm really excited about the idea of using those hacks that let you know where everyone is in the map and combining that with somehow knowing what type of character they're controlling in order to create a heat map for each type of char in each map. Then, this radically shifts how everyone plays the game. Entering any particular region of the map increases your probability of running into a certain type of character. I don't play the game so I don't know how useful that kind of information might be in reality but nonetheless, I really like the thought of seeing it. Did you do heat maps for Warframe or something similar?

Nicholas Bennett
Nicholas Bennett

Datamining combined with the new instant gratification era killed exploration. Why look for something when you can just look it up where to get it exactly. Think about it this way, Dead Rising 4's super reaper weapon was tucked away pretty well considering the prerequesets. Thanks to the internet and every child wanting the new shiny toy so they can make a video and get a million billion views on their jewtube page we can no longer have fun things in vidya.

John Perez
John Perez

Nah, he just lost it when the explosion happened.
That said, you know they would have removed his eye if they had to and they would do it with a fucking smile because you are just a grunt.

Cameron Hall
Cameron Hall

(checked)
They don't.

Evan Walker
Evan Walker

The amount of people in this thread completely missing the point and saying stuff like "you're mad about spoilers then" or "just don't read the stuff that's posted online" is kind of sad. Are they underage or just stupid?

Josiah Morales
Josiah Morales

Are they underage or just stupid?
trw the children that had internet from an infant now vote
Sadly, they are no longer underage faggots. We are just old fucks seeing the world burn.

Joshua Baker
Joshua Baker

I'm trying to think what's the most recent game that had a lot of rumors and mysteries about it and I think it was Dark Souls. And then the PC version came out and data miners did their thing.
The 5 big ones form my childhood were Pokemon gen 1 (I heard so much bullshit about it from kids back then, I didn't even believe shiny pokemon were a thing when gen 2 came out and a notorious bullshitter told me about them), OoT, SotN, GTAVC and GTASA. There were rumors about close to every popular game though. Like how to play as Luigi in SM64 or theories about a lot of shit in CS1.6.
I only played Dark Souls on PC and I went in blind so I had a pretty good time, felt pretty similar to when I played OoT as a kid. The difference was that when I was a kid I'd look up OoT stuff and never find anything completely confirming or completely denying rumors. Fansites and even official magazines talked about rumors like they were true. It was interesting, exploring that stuff by myself. But with DaS I knew that if I looked up anything online I'd find answers immediately, so I avoided any online information. Now imagine a kid in 2009 picking up Dark Souls and being engrossed in it. He'd look up dark souls stuff online, and even without complete data mining, autists and wikis would have already dissected huge portions of the game. This kid doesn't even know what's like, being lost in a game's mystery and chasing after rumors himself.

Brandon Gomez
Brandon Gomez

If it can be found, it can be found.

Mason Perez
Mason Perez

Now imagine a kid in 2009 picking up Dark Souls and being engrossed in it. He'd look up dark souls stuff online, and even without complete data mining, autists and wikis would have already dissected huge portions of the game. This kid doesn't even know what's like, being lost in a game's mystery and chasing after rumors himself.
As if I wasn't sad enough for my kid's future you had to hit me right in the feels.

Luis Baker
Luis Baker

Now imagine a kid in 2009 picking up Dark Souls and being engrossed in it. He'd look up dark souls stuff online, and even without complete data mining, autists and wikis would have already dissected huge portions of the game. This kid doesn't even know what's like, being lost in a game's mystery and chasing after rumors himself.

Buy Dark Souls for my nephew who lives in the fucking sticks
His caretakers (Grandparents on father's side) are leery, but I tell them he can play as a cleric and they oblige
He does go cleric
Almost no internet connection
Constantly calls me about his progress and how much fun he's having with Solaire
He hits demon ruins
Tell him he can save Solaire
He asks how
Only tell him it's covenant related

He's yet to find it, but he's on his third playthrough.

Easton Wright
Easton Wright

80,000,000 million
has something some faggot that plays with games instead of plays games ruined games
What language is this?
implying people dont play every overwatch character the same way

Juan Jenkins
Juan Jenkins

I hope that's true because it makes me happy.

Angel Green
Angel Green

yfw he just looks it up while you are not looking

Aaron Smith
Aaron Smith

Post the Hex Maniac porn already you niggers.

Thomas Reed
Thomas Reed

online tryhard shootans like Quake.

James Gutierrez
James Gutierrez

the game that forced hitscan on us
Nah.

Bentley Martin
Bentley Martin

muh realism

Ethan Scott
Ethan Scott

And then you have the fake canon those retards came up with becoming the generally accepted canon.
That's why you make the fake shit as schizophrenic as possible, make sure absolutely NONE of that shit connects in any normally conceivable way, then kick back and watch the retards piece it all together.

Of course it won't stop the autism but it'll be fun to watch that much reaching and shit.

Kayden Ward
Kayden Ward

just don't make the game interesting enough to inspire people to look for secrets.

John Watson
John Watson

Has datamining killed exploration and secrets in video games?

That, and the advent of YouTube and other social media platforms that disseminate at such a neckbreak speed.

Back in the day, certain secrets such as fatalities were purposefully kept hidden by the developers to encourage people to discover it all on their own. The earliest way that you would have found out how to perform a fatality in a Mortal Kombat game is by word of mouth, which game the hobby a sense of whimsy.

Nowadays, nothing good comes from datamining. By eviscerating a game's code and finding secrets, you either spoil a game's story content, which pisses people off, or find out how much the developers were locking behind DLC, which also pisses people off.

Jaxson Gray
Jaxson Gray

I only play games so obscure nobody bothers to datamine them. There, problem solved.

Mason Green
Mason Green

We are just old fucks seeing the world burn.

mfw we've become those old grampas who go "back in my day" and complain about the current state of things
Maybe the world really is constantly getting progressively worse and has been doing that for decades. It'll just keep getting worse until nuclear apocalypse or something cleans the slate.

Robert Morris
Robert Morris

You will beg for death.

But death will not come.

Josiah Morgan
Josiah Morgan

Oh really?

John Morris
John Morris

fuck you rob

Nathan Powell
Nathan Powell

The problem is people talking about the vidya just drop the secrets like its nothing, which can be especially irritating when the flow of the conversation changed so fast to the spoilered vidya that you didn't have time to bail

Jason Brown
Jason Brown

Is this the original rule34?

Jaxson Wilson
Jaxson Wilson

All these people do is cycle through all items that are in the game by manipulating exported savegames, they can't actually go through the game files with extractors.

Oliver Scott
Oliver Scott

have lurked here for a long ass time
have never seen this image

fuckin' aye

People have been writing about "things getting worse" for thousands of years. Ancient greek philsophers did that shit all the time.

The only difference is, the way I see it, that we have never been so far ahead, with so large a disconnection with the skills needed to actually survive on the planet rather than just in a city.

Before, if "civilzation" was lost, you just didn't have paintings and huge buildings being made - that's it. Everyone knew how to hunt/farm/cook/build. Now, if youtube tanks, there is almost no fucking hope for survival whatsoever.

It's not that the human situation has changed, it's that the stakes have changed due to our quite recent mastery over our environment.

Jackson Barnes
Jackson Barnes

Eating utensils are restricted and regulated in the UK, for example it's illegal to sell forks to minors.

Thomas Flores
Thomas Flores

The thing is datamining makes developers less likely put those types of secrets into games because they know someone is going to dump it all online a day or two after the game releases. Look at how Sakurai wouldn't put the sub-space emissary in Smash 4 because he knew someone would put all the cutscenes on YouTube. I know it's retarded, but that's how devs think.

Gabriel Russell
Gabriel Russell

Please tell me this isn't real

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