Dishonored

You forgot to mention stronk femyle guards everywhere

also

apart from that game was OK.
+No powers mode
+Stilton manor (really awesome mission)
+Clockwork mansion
sadly it wasn't really balanced for a ghost run in no powers mode. I had to take out a couple of guards in the dust district and in the island hospital.

The first was better and the first wasn't that great to begin with. Everything about the narrative/plot was complete shit and the gameplay was occasionally fun but the level design was incredibly lacking and to forgiving. Play Thief if you want the better stealth game. Play Painkiller if you want a better action fps. Both of them together don't really mesh well in this game and the story and gameplay suffers as a result.

Good:
- Limited but interesting powers and equipment means more thinking and less Domino cheese
- Brawling Club, Stake-out & Bank Robbery missions are fun with lots of approaches
- Contracts mean lots of little side shit to do

Bad:
- No option to play as Daud when D2 has two playable characters
- Envisioned are barely used, oracular sisters and sentinels are reskins
- Only 3 unique levels out of 5 total, one ripped from D2
- Final mission is incredibly linear with few interesting details

Non-Lethal in Dishonored isn't a purely narrative choice, it has gameplay implications. Your only ranged is sleep darts which are less plentiful and more expensive than bolts. You also have to choke out enemies which takes longer than killing them and you have to hide the bodies after. You can't use springrazors, grenades, lethal powers or the pistol. Tallboys are untouchable. It's an optional level of difficulty.

Narratively it works too. It's not like "you are evil so accept your punishment" it goes by the system of more death = more bodies = more rats/bloodflies = more chaotic world.

Idiots complained that non-lethal was boring because they had less tools to work with and later titles introduced stun mines, hyperbaric grenades, the hagpearl and more non-lethal powers which sort of negates the point if you are going to give everything a non-lethal variant.

Painkiller is fucking shit. Dishonored is a fantastic tribute to Thief.

Dishonored is not like Thief. Thief is late medieval with sparse steampunk elements. Dishonored is Victorian England with magic.
Also, Dishonored isn't a stealth game (and that's OK).

You're fucking shit. And it's not even comparable to Thief faggot.

It is if you want the good ending.

Walk yourself off a bridge, faggot, that one sentence summarizes everything wrong with modern gaymers.

Dishonored doesn't have even 2/3 of the mechanics that made Thief so good, it's both a shitty wannabe stealth game and a shitty wannabe action game. It's casualized garbage.

Last I checked, well-designed difficulty doesn't mean taking away 90% of your playbox and leaving only a limited amount of sleep darts and chokeholds. It means cranking up the challenge so you use your existing tools in even more creative ways.

Dishonored's approach is the retard's approach to game design.

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I have played Thief, Thief: Gold and Thief 2 in their entirety and a whole host of FM's. There are differences but on the whole the games are very similar.

What mechanics are present in the Thief series that aren't in Dishonored? What makes it "casualised"? I am curious.

I think they're broadly similar, in that Dishonored (like all Arkane games) takes its cues from Looking Glass games. But it's closer in gameplay to a more elaborate BioShock, or a stripped-down Deus Ex.
Off the top of my head? The light gem. Walking surfaces having differing loudness. The punishing combat that actively discourages you from getting into fights. Crouching that slightly reduces your visibility rather than being a "sneak mode" that makes you completely silent. Lockpicking. Opening doors by selecting the right key, rather than doing it automatically if the key is in your inventory. The compass. The ability to put out lights. Rope arrows, water arrows, and moss arrows.

Dishonored was a mistake

I think it's a decent game. I just dislike all the comparisons to Thief.

The game's kinda janky but it's miles better than many shooters since its release.

W E

Dishonored is Arcade Thief but likes to pretend it isn't. I love Thief and like the Dishonored series. Haven't played as the stronk black dyke though.

I wish nuThief hadn't been one of the worst games I had played in recent time but if that's what it takes to make devs rethink their fuckups so be it

Same.

You stand to win nothing from any fight in Dishonored except waste resources, just because it's not as punitive it doesn't mean it's not at all.

Crouching in Dishonored only slightly reduces your visibility, much like Thief, and it doesn't make you completely silent either.
Remenber that you also had another key to "prowl" in Thief that reduced your noise and you could use it in conjunction with crouch.

This might be petty, but there's plenty of candles and fireplaces you can put out.

Other than that, stuff like Lockpicking is indeed missing but the keys thing is fun but not necessary.

How come? Augmentations and Powers are good paralells, multiple grenades and gadgets too. Only difference would most likely be lack of assault rifles and shotguns, but come the fuck on.
It's Victorian Deus Ex.

Why?

Dishonored is absolute pozzed dogshit for casuals and the fact you bought it and expected others here to have done the same shows you really don't belong here.

>>>/cuckchan/
>>>/somethingawful/
>>>/reddit/

You clearly never played DX.

Because you actually think some casual watered down version Thief is good when it isn't. Fuck off.

Killing people makes it easier to take their loot, and the various loot lying around the level. If you don't want to sneak, it's your other option. It's also occasionally fun.
Entering combat in Thief is, itself, a punishment, because it's hard to win and it's not fun. In Dishonored, combat is built to be a viable option, and it is–it only punishes you if you're careless.
I know.
Yes, it does. Try moving around at top speed, while crouched, right behind a guard. He won't hear you. (Maybe this is different on higher difficulties?)
That was simply because, again, Thief actually had variable levels of noise associated with movement speed and movement surface. Dishonored doesn't.
I guess technically that's true, but Dishonored doesn't take light levels into account at all for determining whether or not you're hidden, so it's a moot point. You also can't remove any significant light sources, only a few candles or fireplaces, whose absence will never make the surrounding area pitch-black. It's a cute cosmetic detail, and nothing more. So yes, you are being petty.
It's not a matter of necessity. He asked for features in Thief that aren't in Dishonored, and I answered. Also, there is a certain thrill to the idea of frantically trying to find the right key for the door before a guard comes around the corner and sees you–and a reward for paying attention to scenery details and memorizing which key goes to which lock.
Deus Ex had skill points in addition to augmentation canisters, for one thing. Dishonored has nothing like that; you only have perks, no statistics that decide how proficient you are at a given activity. It's fairly reactive, but not as reactive as Deus Ex–there are no big context-changing, non-signposted choices, like the ability to save Paul, or discovering the bomb in the helicopter. And in general, the potential for emergence is lessened in Dishonored; Deus Ex might let you stack crates to get over an electrified pool, or cheese LAMs to climb a tower, while Dishonored mostly just gives you interesting powers right off the bat, almost as a replacement for that emergence.
None of this makes Dishonored a bad game. In fact, I think it's a good game. It's just not like Thief, beyond the extremely superficial comparisons that: 1) you can sneak, and 2) it's set in a fantastical past.

Addendum: I understand that even the developers themselves made the Thief comparisons and encouraged them, especially by hiring Stephen Russell for the sequel. They're just as wrong, too. Either they don't understand what Thief was about, or they're cynically trying to get Thief fans to buy something under false pretenses.

People like you are the problem.

Same is true for Thief, why would you even make this point?

That's not a punishment. You lose nothing for entering combat in Thief and you can easily outrun just about any enemy anyway.
And that has nothing to do with the original point either, Dishonored combat is indeed punitive. Clearly not as much as Thief but to say that there are no consequences for engaging in combat all the time in Dishonored is… Dishonest.

It's a bit different at higher settings indeed since at very close distances he will hear you (but it's enough time for a neck stab)
However, not only are you comparing different levels of difficulty now, the same is valid for Thief too, you can crouch and walk behind a guard without being heard as long as it's not metal or gravel.

True for the first game, false for the second since people bitched enough that they made it part of the gameplay. You can remain hidden in dark areas even when enemies have LOS to you, but only at long distances.

I might be dooming a game I actually quite like but…
I guess then that Dishonored is to Thief what Deus EX Invisible War was to original Deus EX.

That was marketing, they know the stealth market is dry as fuck and they wanted to carve a big slice of it with an easy comparison.
With the exception of Styx (that is closer to Thief than Dishonored), there's very little other games that are close enough to Thief that you can even start to make comparisons, sadly.

It is indeed a good game and I enjoy the power fantasy it actually is, but the devs should ackowledge this, drop the pretense of being a Thief iteraction and go full predatory stealth. Add the fear mechanics of Mark of the Ninja, make it open world so there's more use for the movement abilities and you have a fucking solid game right there that can even go toe to toe with AssCreed and win.

Because Thief discourages you from fighting. Dishonored just makes sneaking the easiest (and most boring) way to get through a level. They aren't the same.
How? Dishonored's combat isn't as hard as Thief's, and it has kill-cams, takedown moves, etc. It's also designed to have only a certain number of guards ever actively attacking you at once. It is designed to be just another part of the game that you can play for fun, not as an incentive to sneak. The fact that it happens when you're caught doesn't make it a punishment. Put it this way: in Thief, if a guard starts fighting you, your best bet is almost always to run away and try again, while in Dishonored, it's just as easy to finish the fight and move on as it is to teleport away.
This is why Dishonored isn't a stealth game. It's a game that you can play like a stealth game. But in a stealth game, when you're caught, you run away (or maybe kill a guard or two if you're lucky). In Dishonored, when you're caught, you can run away or you can just play an action game instead. Sticking to sneaking is a self-imposed limit in Dishonored, either because the player likes sneaking or because he wants to minimize risks (and sneaking is the lowest-risk method of traversal). In Thief, sneaking is a practical necessity, and you'll generally get #rekt if you don't. It's not rocket science. Play one after the other, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
Making my point for me. That's an element in Thief that's not present in Dishonored, and it changes things. Also, marble.
And the guards' line of sight is so short that this is basically a non-issue. How many times are you going to be close enough that a guard might see you, but far away enough that the darkness still hides you? If it ever happened to me, I didn't notice it.
To me, a more apt comparison would be this: Dishonored is to Deus Ex as BioShock is to System Shock.
So you think they went the cynical route, then. You're probably right, though I'm not sure which option would be worse.
There are a fair few games that offer optional stealth these days: Far Cry, the new Deus Ex games, most shitty open-world sandbox games. But Dishonored just emphasizes it a bit more mechanically, and a ton more in marketing. The fact that most journos fell for it and call Dishonored a "stealth game" is proof that they're largely idiots.
I don't think we'll have to worry about that for much longer. It looks like Dishonored is probably dead forever now. The founder of the company left (though that was probably more to do with Prey which I also liked). Dishonored 2 was the first sequel they ever made. I hope they go back to making every game a new IP. Assuming they aren't just shut down within the next year or two, which seems likely. I hope not. I feel like I'm the only person on Holla Forums who still likes Arkane.

Dishonored 2 looks like some good fun if you fully exploit all the mechanics. Does the expansion add anything besides *SMACKS LIPS*?

Speaking of which, does anyone have a torrent for either of the Dishonored games? I've been wanting to give it a try for the longest time.

I meant why can't we have threads gathering a consensus on games?

But niggers are thieves and assassins.

Still hasn't finished downloading yet.

I really enjoyed the first but they completely ruined the lore in the second. Just throw out the mystery by giving the outsider an origin story. Mechancally the Expansions for the first were the best but I appreciate some of the crowd contol abilites in the second. While the clockwork mansion was reviewer bait, the small moving panel in the starting room was genius, when the triple clockworks spawn you can shove a spring razor and whale oil tank on it and pull the level for a triple kill. Harvey Smith can still design a level, a shame he's gone full cuck.

I still plan on doing a Patriarcy run where I kill only female guards. Might upload to youtube for maximum salt.

I'm halfway through Arx Fatalis now. Fucking Libertatis doesn't take screenshots properly otherwise I would have shown some of you guys some freaky level 7 shit when I wandered off the questline.

Didn't it sell pretty well though ? I'm sure the devs blamed evil racist gamers anyways.

Do it. Make a new channel for it, though, because you'll probably get flagged.

According to SteamSpy, Dishonored sold 3.5 million units, Dishonored 2 sold about 900,000, and Death of the Outsider has only sold about 70,000.

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I disagree. The whole thing with Thief is that you are supposed to be vulnerable and relatively powerless with only a few tools to help you get through the missions, organic story telling within the game world and a game that generally encourages, heck even requires, you the player to think, improvise, pay attention to the environment as in how visible you are, what the floor is made of, you speed, the distance of enemy footsteps, areas you covered, learning patrols as well as have an overall good general sense of direction. There is no comparison to Thief and Dishonored when it comes to combat, which is discouraged not just by higher difficulties that fail you for even killing someone, but in that you are generally weak, and so is your fighting chance. In Dishonored if you get detected it's easy to blow away a dozen guards because you have teleportation, guns, spells and crossbows, a whole plethora of weapons to defend yourself with. These are just a few of the things that separate these games and to say that Dishonored is a tribute is a bit far fetched when it doesn't even compare to the first Thief game in terms of storytelling, immersion and gameplay because they are completely different games.

Dishonored doesn't have a mini-map.

The other user mostly covered it, but to sum up:

Light levels being important.
Sound being important.
Guards being more logically observant.
Instead of an instant "stealth" mode, there are various types of movement to alter between. Hell, even stealth mode in Dishonored is useless, because you can normally walk literally up to 1 meter behind a guard before he'll even hear anything and sliding negates being heard anyway.
Direct combat is difficult and not just a matter of parrying strikes and then going for an instant kill or jumping five feet into the air to do an instant kill from above. Fucking Assassin's Creed: Unity got this right, what does that say about Dishonored?
Traversal being almost comically easy as you skip around like you are in low-G gravity.

I haven't played Thief in a while, but that's off-the-top of my head.

Dishonored was really just a dumbed-down Dark Messiah mixed with a few of Deus Ex's RPG mechanics. Either way, with Colantonio gone, I think Arkane is done for. All they've got left is Harvey Smith, who was one of the main reasons for Invisible War being shit and is probably majorly responsible for Dishonored's gameplay faux pas'. And even before that, there was a massive exodus from the company post-The-Crossing and I'm not even gonna touch how badly Bethesda strangled Arkane's creativity.

The other user mostly covered it, but to sum up:

Light levels being important.
Sound being important.
Guards being more logically observant.
Instead of an instant "stealth" mode, there are various types of movement to alter between. Hell, even stealth mode in Dishonored is useless, because you can normally walk literally up to 1 meter behind a guard before he'll even hear anything and sliding negates being heard anyway.
Direct combat is difficult and not just a matter of parrying strikes and then going for an instant kill or jumping five feet into the air to do an instant kill from above. Fucking Assassin's Creed: Unity got this right, what does that say about Dishonored?
Traversal being almost comically easy as you skip around like you are in low-G gravity.

I haven't played Thief in a while, but that's off-the-top of my head.

Dishonored was really just a dumbed-down Dark Messiah mixed with a few of Deus Ex's RPG mechanics. Either way, with Colantonio gone, I think Arkane is done for. All they've got left is Harvey Smith, who was one of the main reasons for Invisible War being shit and is probably majorly responsible for Dishonored's gameplay faux pas'. And even before that, there was a massive exodus from the company post-The-Crossing and I'm not even gonna touch how badly Bethesda strangled Arkane's creativity.

AYYO YOU BE SAYIN WE'S SUM KINNA MAGIC SASSINS AN SHEEEEEIT

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I think we're soon going to need a victims of Bethesda chart.

I'd like to point out that stealth in both games serves different purposes and is used by 2 different types of characters.
Without taking into consideration that you're comparing a regular human with a lot of training to a supernatural assassin touched by the Outsider, please understand that stealth in Thief serves the purpose of avoiding people while in Dishonored, it's about going near people.

For Thief, sneaking is a trade of speed for stealth. The slower you are the less visible or audible you'll be and it's up to you to balance it according to the situation in order to avoid being found.
For Dishonored however, this would slow the gameplay considerably when stealth is meant as a side tool to kill someone.
At long distances, noise barely matters in either game and ends up being the same for the player, the difference is only at close distances, where Thief will make you choose between speed or safety while Dishonored doesn't put that problem because it doesn't matter, you're gonna kill the guy anyway.

You can parry strikes in Thief, BTW. And you can't parry bullets or music boxes or explosive shots in Dishonored.
You can't do that anymore in Dishonored 2. You're talking about a game you didn't play, mate.

AssCreed has always been about cheesing counter-attacks from parries to kill your oponents or kill-from-above after some fancy acrobatics, are you sure you actually played it?

I'll disagree heavily on this one, I like both games too much to let this slide.
Dark Messiah was a game that allowed you to play as any of 3 classes (Mage, Thief, Warrior) and mix&match their powers as well, it wasn't a strict stealth experience nor was it focused in stealth at all. To try and make a comparison between Dishonored and this is fucking ridiculous.

Especially considering how simple the Perk skill tree was in Dark Messiah compared to the Powers Tree you have in Dishonored or how generic the magic powers look in comparison, or how little equipment you actually had in Dark Messiah. There's nothing dumbed-down from Dark Messiah because it's not even the same type of game.

Friendly reminder that Wymen's gender is never specified on purpose (except for a single instance that has been declared a mistake).
It's a classic literature device of the english language where you can write a lot about someone without ever mentioning their gender, please don't be this triggered at your own imagination.
And please don't get mad at yuri.

I haven't played WE WUZ GOD KILLAZ AN SHIEEET expansion but I've played through 2's main campaign non lethally as Corvo recently. It was alright, nothing particularly groundbreaking but I've enjoyed it. Tried playing as Emily in new game plus in full chaos mode but her abilities didn't really do it for me so I stopped around mid way since no matter how open some of the areas are, you're still following the same wide corridor to the mission objective. Domino and using her whip on enemies makes the combat trivial even though I played on hard.

At least read the descriptions of the powers you didn't upgrade ffs.

Isn`t this the one where you play as a negress?

Mark my words DISHONORED will be the next asscreed, they are going to keep making games with different settings every time

To 4/u/ maybe, 8/u/ has standards and condemns this.

Right back at you, I've pirated and played both games.
You could use the upgraded Agility power in the first game to propell yourself up high enough to trigger the drop-down kill but in Dishonored 2, it no longer works. An Agility jump will not be enough to allow the drop-down kill.

You can reflect projectiles using Wind Blast but not with your sword, save for a few upgrades on 2 that still don't work against Music Boxes, that not only disable powes but also slowly drain your life.
You also can't parry animal attacks by the way.

Different companies, Arkane doesn't do the whole "one every year" dev cycle that Ubisoft does.
Wish they did so we got another Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah or even they finished The Crossing.

Good thing then that Wymen is a masculine name and there's nothing in the whole game that implies Emily is a lesbian then.

that`s why I said "with different settings every time", they are going to milk this gimmick to pretend it`s a different game every year

What gimmick? The idea of a super powered dude going around killing people? If that's the "gimmick", it has already been going with Prototype or Crackdown.

Frankly, I quite like the movement in the game since it gives you mantling, slides, jumps that put you far above knee-high, it has a decent combat to back it up and some interaction with the environment.
The biggest "sin" it seems to make is passing the idea that it's a stealth game when it would be better off labeling itself as an action game instead and I believe if that was their strategy, there wouldn't be this ridiculous outrage against the game just because it's not a carbon copy of another game.

I fucking wish AssCreed or other FPS games had the gameplay of Dishonored, it's pretty embarassing that grabbing a bottle to throw it at someone, something incredibly basic, isn't standard in the industry but Dishonored does that.
It's also pretty disapointing to see tall buildings around you that are only mere background and set pieces for many games, when Dishonored has a few of those actually open so you can not only move inside freely but even perch from balconies or even go all the way to the roof, and this without loading screens.

For all the hate the game has, it's still much better and has more and better gameplay than most games released in a long time.

Great thread

No, they didn't.

So far Emily is a lesbian, there's a minimap in the game and you can still trigger drop-down kills with Agility.
That's 3 "facts" I've counted from people too buttmad they aren't playing Thiefhonored.

Yeah, those are the upgrades I was referring to. Note your usage of the word "or" in this
This is factually wrong. Be specific.

"You can jump high enough to perform an air attack" is not given in any description so don't level shit back at me.

With regards to me quoting you about not playing the game, see the first point, you said you flat out couldn't parry bullets but you can. Don't twist words to win an argument, it leaves you open to serial nitpickers like myself ;^)

Get off your high horse, you made a couple of mistakes yourself

I'm the same faggot that has the newest one dowloading right now. I get that you like the game, so do I, and people shitting on it without playing it is retarded but you're being a faggot

The Music Box has an area effect as long as it's close to you for which you have no defense. It's a direct counter to your powers that forces you to use stealth or very explosive solutions to take down the operator. Note that his mask prevents front shots.
That effect cannot be parried.

You can reflect projectiles with Wind Blast at the cost of mana, not with your sword for free. You can try to parry bullets but you'll still take damage.
I believe Dishonored 2 has an upgrade\bone charm that lets you parry bullets with your sword, but not explosive shots from tallboys and larger projectiles.

That's on the first game only, isn't it? Because I'm telling you what I tried myself, Agility no longer lets you do insta-kills in the second game, unless there's an upgrade there I missed but I don't believe so.
It was a cheesy move that let you win fights by hopping around like a retard and I think it was "fixed" in the second specifically to address this. (It might still work against unaware enemies, though)

Not in the first game, you can't. Guards will draw their guns if you start blocking for too long for that specific reason.

Its more of Dishonored.
Thats about all that can be said, they haven't done much to improve or build on it. Just more of it.

Being touched by the Outsider does not give you superhuman attributes, which is exactly why the double-jump is retarded. The fact that Dishonored is ostensibly about being a sneaky assassin actually makes it's shoddy stealth and traversal mechanics even more offensive.

So having dumbed-down stealth options doesn't matter because Dishonored is trying to be an action game and not an actual stealth game? Excellent. Glad we've established a baseline here.

Did you deliberately ignore the part where I specified that you perform an instant kill right after parrying someone's attack in Dishonored?

And no shit you can't parry projectiles, that would be levels of retarded that I think even cucked Arkane wouldn't touch. And even then they give you an upgrade in Dishonored 2 that lets you parry projectiles.

Uh, yes you can. It's one of the easiest ways to kill the Clockwork Morons which makes you wonder why they were hyped up so much.

Have you played Unity? Because instant kill counters is exactly what you can't do in it anymore. In Dishonored you just have to stand back, wait for an enemy to strike, lazily parry it then press attack to instantly murder them while they are stunned.

Actually, it's a perfect comparison now, because as we've established above, Dishonored isn't a stealth game. It tries to pretend to be one, but it's fundamentally a first-person action game. The only difference is that playing as a mage is blended into the two styles of either playing a bloodthirsty killer or a wannabe assassin.

OK, now you have to be deliberately trying to pretend to be dense, because the skill tree in Dark Messiah was far more expanded than Dishonored's simplistic power tree.

Generic? How the fuck is a broken teleportation spell, an air blast spell and summoning rats (the most useless power of all) not generic? Or stopping time, which is basically just a "here, let us stop the game for you so you can set everything up for 'badass' kills" spell?

Dishonored gives you a sword, a gun, a crossbow and some bombs. And even then the most useful ones (the stun mines and the chokedust) aren't even in the base game and one of them isn't in the sequel for some reason.

First 30 seconds Yes I'm being literal and not exaggerating
>blah blah "you have to deal with the choices that you've made" ham-fisted narrative bludgeoning we want the mass effect audience
Wew, I should have installed a fan mission for System Shock 2