Examples:>Looks like game about plague of werewolves but turns out its the tip...

Liam Lee
Liam Lee

How do you feel about 'level that changes everything' tone shifts in vidya?

Examples:
Looks like game about plague of werewolves but turns out its the tip of a lovecraft iceburg and second half goes full old god
Looks like zombie apocalypse till ghosts and demons show up
Looks like CSI game tracking down serial killers but becomes supernatural horror

This includes story shifts in level based games and open world games where triggering a certain story event changes the entire overworld to suit the new story.

Thomas Reyes
Thomas Reyes

I think it's a great tool that some developers put to fantastic use. It's the pull of the rug that's hard to do. You can either flub it and do something cheap that changes your perspective. I think a few games would fall into that category of "hey you know those blue plants located all around the world? they actually have a useful resource for you to collect!" and all the sudden you're able to collect that resource 12 hours in.

I think Nier Automata is one of the best examples of this with how incredibly drastic the changes in the world map are. I was blown away after the engels fight in the city destroyed a third of the map and changed it forever, but in route c? I never saw that coming, that was absolutely incredible despite looking back and seeing how simple it was, the delivery was tremendous.

Zachary Mitchell
Zachary Mitchell

I love that shit. Dragon's Dogma shift of tone caught me off guard.

Can't think of more games that do it, though.

Adam Barnes
Adam Barnes

I agree, Nier Automata's tone shift is incredibly well done.

Dylan Morris
Dylan Morris

No. I would rather have the game's actual plot, setting and theme presented to me immediately because what a fucking trick, I hate getting tricked.

Owen Allen
Owen Allen

Does the first one actually exist

Elijah Nguyen
Elijah Nguyen

Yes

Jayden Jackson
Jayden Jackson

Its great when done right but also shouldn't be done too often.

Brandon Walker
Brandon Walker

few examples
Xenogears: starts as bright and colourful jrpg, gets darker and darker till a shift reveal that the villain is the id and you are the ego and its all a psychological battle involving reincarnation and horror undertones
FFIX, appears to be a fairy tale fantasy but really its a sci fi story where homunculi clones left behind by humans on a now dead terra are bioforming a planet called gaia into a replacement earth and only reveals it late in the game when the villain sends you to a 'temple' that is actually a crashed prototype ship from earth your character is a homunculi sleeper agent only there to spread war and kill off the indiginous life faster so their souls can be replaced with human souls in the planets lifestream. Only then does the few humans already on gaia all being knights known for inhuman strength make sense.
Etrian Oddyssey - 'hey this is a fantasy jrpg world, oh but these ruins you delve into the entire game? yeah thats tokyo thousands of years in the future'
Links Awakening - fun adventure where link washes up on an island, but after a certain dungeon it turns out its a dream and waking the mystical creature at the center of it will erase all the innocent people created by the dreamer
Bravely Second End Layer - get to big bad, try to beat him but cant, characters turn to the screen and beg you for help and a new start screen appears "Bravely Second Send player" and a new adventure to disuade his subordinate bosses from joining him begins.
DIOS - forgotten gem by zainsoft. Starts as soldier sent from moon to earth to kill mutants, turns out midway the mutants are just mutated humans not monsters and you are one of them reprogrammed by alien invaders to wipe out your own kind then it becomes a resistance story.

Kevin Brooks
Kevin Brooks

Looks like a game about Earthbound but turns out it's leftist propaganda

Charles Bailey
Charles Bailey

Bloodborne, ???, Condemned

What the fuck is the second one?

Robert Peterson
Robert Peterson

Bloodborne
Neir: Automata
Nice!

Jacob Diaz
Jacob Diaz

lets get all these games out on a tray.

Jace Murphy
Jace Murphy

The Sword level in Thief.

Justin Price
Justin Price

I was expecting a run and gun game like the first one. turns out every level is a gimmick.

Dominic Garcia
Dominic Garcia

Area 51 was an FPS that did this really well, with halfway through the game you finding out everything you believed was wrong. Red Faction 2 relatively early on has you defeat the "final boss" looking dude only to discover your allies are cunts.
An example of failing this is Haze, which made it very predictable and the gameplay didn't change that much, even though you are supposed to feel like swapping from a supersoldier to a guerilla fighter you still feel like a supersoldier.

Grayson Flores
Grayson Flores

Only then does the few humans already on gaia all being knights known for inhuman strength make sense.
Can you elaborate on that a little more?

Benjamin Lee
Benjamin Lee

The only time I've ever experienced this without knowing beforehand was the original Guild Wars. I thought it was cool, but I'd liked the idyllic environment and was disappointed to be given a charred wasteland in replacement.

I guess I'm saying I like the idea, but it has to be handled well in a lot of ways to not just bait and switch the player with something they never asked for or wanted.

Gavin White
Gavin White

The ending to Trails in the Sky FC got me good.

Jaxson Perez
Jaxson Perez

Eversion.
Especially if you don't get the true ending.
And if you get it it's even better.

Alexander Mitchell
Alexander Mitchell

???
Survival Crisis Z

Grayson Roberts
Grayson Roberts

It's specifically referring to Bloodborne.

Lincoln King
Lincoln King

I like it, especially when it's a horror level out of nowhere. You have to know how to smooth out the rest of the game after that level, though. The "different' level should build up, then hit you like a ton of bricks–but the levels after that should scale back toward the "normal" side of things, with the "different" elements sprinkled in.

Jaxson Long
Jaxson Long

Look at this MRE Review thread in disguise. It's not even a good disguise.

Christian Sullivan
Christian Sullivan

Also, I'll be the first person to say it and risk the ridicule, but the original Halo does this pretty well with the Flood reveal.

Robots, I think.

Ian Sanchez
Ian Sanchez

You say that as if its a bad thing.

Bentley Evans
Bentley Evans

I discovered him this morning, pretty interesting stuff.
Nice hiss.

Anyway, on the topic of video games, I can enjoy this trope but only if done well. Sometimes it can go over the top and just be more annoying than anything else. I think Bloodborne and Dragon's Dogma did it well, but something like Undertale felt too hamfisted imo

Bentley Diaz
Bentley Diaz

Survival Crisis Z
Has there been any method of porting that to Win7 that actually works?

Samuel Johnson
Samuel Johnson

It'll be beleted unless you disguise them better.

Josiah Bennett
Josiah Bennett

In some games it drastically adjusts the scale. Best example being The Sword in Thief the Dark Project where it goes from an average clunky stealth game to a work of genius

Easton Davis
Easton Davis

game looks like it's about a lovecraftian evil in a small town that used to have a booming industrial center
turns out to be spooky ghosts or some shit
I don't know, if making me want to kill myself is a good change, then this is a great candidate.

Caleb Carter
Caleb Carter

this was one of my favorite games

Xavier Reyes
Xavier Reyes

The Darkness has a moment I won't spoil but it blew me away at the time. My dark horse of that gen.

Benjamin Davis
Benjamin Davis

Far Cry
Onna boat having fun sailing adventures
Suddenly come under rocket fire from what was meant to be deserted islands
Boat is destroyed
Have to fight your way through the mysterious forces to get back home
[time passes]
Game is now about mutant monkeys

Jace King
Jace King

Probably noone remembers Perfect Dark, since despite being a masterpiece of a game better than Goldeneye in every way, it got far less publicity and died with the N64.
The thing is, it starts as a futuristic 007 clone, infiltrating corporations and fighting humans, etc. Then halfway across the game fucking aliens out of nowhere, with their own weaponry and shit, suddenly you are fighting inside an alien spaceship and going to their home planet to genocide them all. Good times. RIP, Joanna.

Kayden Long
Kayden Long

implying Earthbound isn't leftist propaganda :^)

Dylan Morgan
Dylan Morgan

Condemned Criminal Origins did it alright. Indigo Prophecy shit the bed. I liked Star Ocean 3's twist but I'm in the minority.

The alien stuff was breddy gud, the ending was meh.

Michael King
Michael King

I like them when they're well done.
playing Stella Glow
finish part 2 of the last fight in chapter 8, pretty sure I'm almost done the game
it's hit all the story beats you would expect from a basic jrpg
girls sing the anthem to undo the crystalization
triumphant theme playing
Hilda and her Harbingers are defeated
expect her to summon some big evil thing or whatever for me to fight
nope
>giant tree trunks come down from the moon, unleashing a horde of angels on the world
>they start purging people en masse
>man in charge of your knight squad starts laughing maniacally
>gives a long monologue about how much he hates humanity etc etc
>reveals he's the first king of the kingdom, and has lived 1000 years through evil moon magic
>stabs the queen in front of you
>forced to fight unending waves of angels until the objective changes to "run"
>one of the guys you just defeated stays behind to buy you time
>turns out the moon was created by the latent suicidal wishes of a past civilization that was tired of constant war
>it uses the gems that enable magic to monitor humanity's emotions, and if we get too emotional it purges us
>the evil witch was turning people to crystal to suppress their emotions until she could kill the other witches and destroy their rocks so the moon can't monitor earth anymore
>you're actually a 1000-year old hero who was corrupted during an attempt to stop the moon and had to be put into suspended sleep to purify his soul
>the witch you repeatedly tried to kill, who you kept screaming "I hate you, I'll never forgive you" etc at was one of your closest companions
>she was so in love with you she waited 1000 years for you to wake up so she could be with you again, and turned herself into one of history's greatest villains to protect the planet for you
>the evil king attacking humanity is partly fuelled by his resentment that you're remembered as a great hero and he's a "vanished king" in the legends
>this is followed by a large chapter showing how all your teammates are trying to cope with the aftermath, some rebuilding the city, some planning to hide and wait out the apocalypse, some planning to die with a sword in their hands
once you get everyone back together for the real final chapter, all their voice acting, for everything from starting their turn, to attacking, to levelling up, to using a special move (different line for each move) is completely redone, with everyone getting new lines for everything
I genuinely did not expect the plot twist. I was sure I was almost done the game. turns out the villain is the best girl anyway though, because if you get her ending, it shows her laying in a hospital bed holding a newborn baby, upset with you because she didn't want you to see her like that, but happy you think she's beautiful even that way

Luke Fisher
Luke Fisher

I'm lying. Condemned's ending ruined the whole fucking game for me.

James Ross
James Ross

Earthbound is pro-American propaganda and I wouldn't want it any other way

Kevin Scott
Kevin Scott

FarCry and Crysis are great up until the mutants/aliens show up. Interesting, reactive human AI vs dumb bullet sponge..

Cooper Peterson
Cooper Peterson

It's called the end of act 1 dummy, that's how story structure works.

Nathaniel Evans
Nathaniel Evans

Its fantastic when it gives you an alternate ending. Personally speaking I enjoy it when a game seems to be the standard I'm fighting the bad guy and all of a sudden it turns out I've got to fight demons some other bad dudes have sided with and if you're a shitty person you murder the fuck out of the previous games heroes and fuck the entire land up.

Xavier James
Xavier James

And somehow you and one enemy both holding Jackhammers considering only one working unit exists

Camden Wood
Camden Wood

I really like his music.

Oliver King
Oliver King

playing thief for the first time was a mindfuck
be garrett
be thief
expect thieving n shieet
go stealing shit
suddenly zombies
suddenly ghosts
suddenly fucking spook skeltals like dude what the fuck?
suddenly you're fucking saving the world from satan by stealing his shit?

it was good, but the first time all of it seemed so fucking out of place

Juan Garcia
Juan Garcia

Game is now about mutant monkeys
Isn't the case with all games set in Africa

Tyler Nelson
Tyler Nelson

Ominous Bequest Gold Thief 2 fan mission goes from regular mansion robbing into full spoopy satanic shit, not as crazy as Constantine mission layout, but turn of events is pretty cool.

Luke Thompson
Luke Thompson

Fighting werewolves
OK this game is kind of creepy
Stuff gets a little weird
whatever
Defeat a specific boss
>EVERYTHING IS FUCKED
>PEOPLE'S HEAD ARE EXPLODING AS BASKETS OF SNAKES
>GIANT ENEMIES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE THE WHOLE TIME ARE NOW LASER BEAMING YOU
BOSSES MADE UP OF DISCARDED APPENDAGES THAT KICK YOU WITHOUT TIHNKING
>A BRAIN MADE OF EYES
Bloodbourne is amazing

Andrew Torres
Andrew Torres

I played Thief Gold for the first time recently, and am now playing the second one.
The environments look like shit, yet they have more soul and atmosphere than most modern ones. One of the best games Ive played

Lincoln Gray
Lincoln Gray

humans were not native to gaia, the lifa tree was replacing gaians with terrans in the planets lifestream as part of its bioforming protocol. All the humans from the first few generations of them regardless of intelligence are all 'elite knights' because baseline terrans were far stronger than gaians due to higher gravity on earth. characters like steiner and beatrice dont know they are part of a first generation of invaders they just think they were born different and have natural talent since the only species on gaia are burmecians and everyone else looks random based on where they were born.
The only reason they dont stand out much is they look like the summoner tribe, only without horns obviously which becomes another story hook midway.

Lucas Wilson
Lucas Wilson

devs admitted its just about depression, shes in a hospital bed in a coma after falling from the power line at the start, its also why she sees everyone as animals.

Nathan Williams
Nathan Williams

Go kick ass
back and forth in time
gotta get to sand queen
do tons of shit
time for final boss
win
oh shit that didn't work
do another few things
find mask
OH SHIT.WEBM
become shadow
gameplay is mostly the same but notably different
hot damn this is good
it was a hell of an awesome change

Joshua Myers
Joshua Myers

When the hell did any of that shit come up?

Easton Myers
Easton Myers

each level is completely different from the last
more variety and better construction than any of the other shit made in recent times

Justin Williams
Justin Williams

Everything after kujas palace? Remember going down into the crashes prototype spaceshift and talking with the core AI? then going through a portal to the dead ruin of earth to meet the homunculi humanity left behind?

The whole point of the story is Garland wants to continue it because he was ordered too, Kuja cannot deal with being a tool made to serve others like a black waltz and zidane just wants to live a quiet life and fuck girls. One has a sense of obligation, one has a sense of nihilism and the other has a desire for freedom. Chains, Risking everything to find a new purpose or destroy everything out of spite.

Its funny so many play disc one and drop it thinking its a nostalgic throwback like after 8 they decided to town down the eva tier crazy when its the closest final fantasy ever came to kojima tier.

Leo Watson
Leo Watson

I think you need to download the d3drm.dll, dx7vb.dll and dx8vb.dll files and put them in system and/or system32 windows folders

Thomas Richardson
Thomas Richardson

game was fucking tedious and shit

Justin Collins
Justin Collins

I'm more talking about Steiner and Beatrix being Terran transplants. Is that just implied or what?

Leo Cox
Leo Cox

No its told. There are no native humans. The giant life tree? thats entire purpose is to interrupt the lifestream, break down gaian souls to make Mist and force conflicts to keep happening to continue death on a mass scale and then replace those souls with terran ones.
One day just more gaians were born resembling each other than usual. There was some stuff that kind of suggested it was a waste since the humans were already degenerating into Qu as so fahnny stur trak reforanss but its a case of violence begetting violence and history repeating itself.
Pretty much every aspect is. Humans made homunculi like kuja to be their slaves before they died out so then kuja tells queen brahn "let me tell you about my black waltz idea" and makes black mages out of mist that ironically are the original souls of gaia being replaced by terrans.

Its worth replacing since so many didnt get that far or just glossed over it with the 'gotta save muh dagger' focus of these scenes but its all there.

Sebastian Davis
Sebastian Davis

It's too bad I had it spoiled for me. I'll play it eventually but already knowing the big reveal is mildly discouraging when I have other games to play.

Parker Rogers
Parker Rogers

But specifically how do you know Steiner and Beatrix are transplants? Just based on their looks or is there a specific scene that spells it out? I remember the IIfa tree and all that as well as the genome stuff but I don't ever remember anything pointing to the Qu degeneration or humans not being native to Gaia.

Kayden Hernandez
Kayden Hernandez

Very interesting, thanks user.

Zachary Gomez
Zachary Gomez

Far from it. You literally pray to God to get rid of the final boss.

Landon Phillips
Landon Phillips

Looks like a clunky zelda style game but turns out it's actually a clunky third person RTS

Henry Murphy
Henry Murphy

Its pretty much the whole plot of the final disc you want describing. The TL:DR is that humans come from terra, there are not and have never been humans on gaia, the summoner tribe was their equivalent. The whole point of the storys midway twist is that brahn wasnt originally evil and she cut off garnets horn so kuja would think she was just another replacement human as summoners were the worlds indigenous 'humans' and had to be wiped out by Invincible to kickstart the plan. Summoners just used magic while terrans used technology so summoners on gaia became frail casters terran engineers became physically strong from millenias of war and industry.

Its why the knights of pluto are fucking retards but still elite guards. Because even a dumb as a box of rocks human is still far stronger than everything but a burmecian.

Go look back at the part of the game. Zidane is a human made homunculi, steiner is a transplanted terran, vivi is a homunculi made from a gaian soul, garnet and eiko are summoners the humans magical equivalent and freya is a burmecian and quina is a malformed human qu. Amarant is the only stand out from the entire party that is probably just the baseline for this world. Everyone else is some form of ubermensch.
Go back and replay it, right from the 'why am i here?' blurbs in the movie that plays before the start screen the whole point of FFIX is "its not how you were born that makes you who you are, its the choices you make".

Its a shame its just written off as a throwback due to the comfort zone opening act.

Lincoln Taylor
Lincoln Taylor

Same. I gave up fighting the final boss because: 1) He was drastically more difficult and frustrating to fight than any other enemy in the game, and 2) It completely ruined the game's mood, which until then had been effectively spooky–fighting some spongy asshole over and over isn't.

Ayden James
Ayden James

I hate tone shifts. It's lazy writing, the game is rarely as fun after the shift, and even if it's executed well it sets the series up to have a gimmicky twist in every future title.

Ayden Reyes
Ayden Reyes

Tone shifts are not lazy. They're just incredibly hard to do, and easy to fuck up.

Luis Rodriguez
Luis Rodriguez

Let's just get these trips on a tray

Aiden Stewart
Aiden Stewart

Uncharted did that very well. From going from a nice little adventure-game you don't really have to pay attention to, to a fucking zombie-shooter in the last mission made me crap my pants. I wasn't expecting that.

Jordan Perry
Jordan Perry

On my first playthrough, I finished Chapter 17 of Kid Icarus: Uprising in the early morning hours, then went to bed.

I had a really fucked-up nightmare.

After waking up, although shaken, I was determined to continue the game. I was totally disoriented by the shift in the game's tone (Pit inhabiting a ring) and the fucked-up nightmare.

Eli Miller
Eli Miller

Halo 1
JENKINS.
JENKINS!

Carson Walker
Carson Walker

Actually user, NitW is about ghosts on the surface which turn then into cosmic horror, but it's got a sublayer of things being impermanent and people needing to move on. I love it, actually.

Benjamin Cooper
Benjamin Cooper

HE HATES IT

Parker Myers
Parker Myers

nitw
cosmic horror
there's no cosmic horror, there's fucking nothing. there's no sense of looming insanity, there's no sense of something you can't understand, there's no sense of player and main character connection, there's no sense of losing control. There's fucking nothing.
The sublayer of things being temporary and there being no permanent solutions isn't even played well either. There's no sense that Possum Springs or whatever it was called is dying other than some dialog that barely matches the tone of the game. The opposite is true, in fact. The sense that family business is being run out by big corperations isn't there, the sense that people are leaving the town for work isn't there, if anything it seems like the town is growing. We can't tell, we don't see all of the town, we see a small amount of it and the mall. Malls are dying everywhere execpt for tourist cities, and having such a small amount of area to show change does shitting fuck. I could take pictures of any city's slum and say "this town's fucking dying".

William Scott
William Scott

devs confirmed its all a coma dream. They arent animals or old gods shes just fucked up after falling off a power line at the start.

Aaron Thompson
Aaron Thompson

Link or it didn't happen.

Gabriel Roberts
Gabriel Roberts

Arx Fatalis
Dwarven Mines
Arkane should have made survival horror games instead

Ian Wright
Ian Wright

nigga I ain't even following game development and I know that's bullshit

Asher Bennett
Asher Bennett

Coma dream scapegoat twist
Almost as bad as the "You were dead the whole time" twist.

Alexander Torres
Alexander Torres

Pic related has to be the weirdest/biggest 180 I have seen.
Game is about going into super underground prison
Seems like any action game, eventually go to cheesy 70s movie land with porno sets and everything
Then put into a cheesy gameshow of death
Out of nowhere you go to this hospital
Find skinwalker with voice of another character
Suddenly the game turns into horror
Skinwalkers everywhere
Turns out all the criminals are killed and put into a massive human computer
The bosses are monsters

Noah Brown
Noah Brown

Divinity II might have this. Suddenly you're the thing you were hunting, and all the enemy groups more than double in size.

Liam Gray
Liam Gray

Not a single mention of TTYD and Twilight Town

Asher Fisher
Asher Fisher

Mission 43 in The Phantom Pain.

Jaxon Hernandez
Jaxon Hernandez

Why did imageepoch have to die? I liked their stuff
Arc Rise Fantasia
Oh damn, the world is crystalizing and that weird country that celebrates it has a dragon that hero-san needs
Welp, childhood friend was kidnapped by them let's rescue her
hear singing at dungeon's end
She's the priestess of the crystalizing god
asks you to help her save the world
the crown Prince attacks Antrax
Flee, everyone wants your party dead
EVERYONE, every major faction
later learn the truth of the two gods, choose to go against both
crown Prince reveals he's you half brother as he dies to the second prince, who was your best friend
shit gets crazier
Like it wasn't earth shatteringly new, but I appreciated all the twists and turns the story took, there are a ton of other little details I don't think I can fit in here besides

Carter Davis
Carter Davis

Is this the new meme people are pushing?
I saw another thread with everyone saying this.

Tyler Nelson
Tyler Nelson

I played Ominous Bequest a month ago and recently i finished the sequel (Broken Triad), some thief FMs have that nice spooky atmosphere, i guess the dark engine has that and also the lowpoly models play on favour to that too.

Ryan Hernandez
Ryan Hernandez

that must have been reeeeeeeeaally bad

Noah Jones
Noah Jones

nice hiss

Nicholas Clark
Nicholas Clark

this is probably the first thing he didn't like

Andrew Thomas
Andrew Thomas

Scan thread
No mention of FF6

Holy shit you fucking faggots

Jaxon Taylor
Jaxon Taylor

Commies attack you, so you go in a war with them.
Have to cross through Japan, they attack you for no reason and you needlessly fight Japs to the point they notice their mistake and let you through.
Then Krauts claim to have been attacked by you and declare war on your ass, until you defeat them.
Surprise, this whole war was created through a false flag done with a clone of your crew, leading to the commies declaring war on you.
The master mind behind the false flag was fucking Darth Vader, who did it as a strategy to weaken all nations and then take over the world with his synthetic monkey soldiers.
After the war, you do a final battle with your Kraut rival who really likes planes for old time's sake, killing many men without a reason in the process.
Here's a clue lads, this game was for the Game Boy. Let's see if you can guess it.

Jeremiah Lee
Jeremiah Lee

Advance Wars?

Nolan Richardson
Nolan Richardson

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

Angel Cox
Angel Cox

ff6 went from having no tone to having a tone. that's a big change?

Brayden Anderson
Brayden Anderson

Wait what shift of tone?

Andrew Price
Andrew Price

Bloodborne

Gavin Rivera
Gavin Rivera

game changes from fighting the all-powerful empire to fighting the all-powerful one guy from the empire
game changes from everything is KIND of miserable (Terra doesn't know who she is or what she wants, Sabin's master is murdered, Cyan's kingdom and king get killed to death by poison, Celes is a homeless traitor) but not complete shit to game is REALLY miserable but there's a faint glimmer of hope.

There's a definite point of change-over, i.e. balance to ruin, but i wouldn't say it was a complete tone reversal. Chrono Cross has more of a drastic shift than FF6.

Luke Reyes
Luke Reyes

When you beat Grigori and the credits roll. Post game I guess.

Carter Morgan
Carter Morgan

When you beat the game the story picks up and shot becomes serious all the way until the true ending.

Chase Ortiz
Chase Ortiz

I'm too scared to drink milk even one day past the expiration date but I've seen this mother fucker eat food that was literally from the civil war. I'm a disgrace.

Jason Torres
Jason Torres

Just fucking smell it.
If it stinks like it shouldn't or is a wet meat product that's old and not nitrated, or slimy when it shouldn't be, don't eat it.

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