One of the biggest issues with open world survival games, is the ability of players to zerg the fuck up. Back when Rust wasn't entirely shit, which it is now - the problem persisted. How does one use game design to prevent these crowds from using sheer numbers to stomp other players?
Yes it is. It's been shit for well over a year. My question isn't whether it's shit or not, but rather how to fix a very particular game design problem.
Make bigger dicks and balls physics.
timers on object damage would fix the issue, if it's even something worth fixing.
you could do a maximum of x damage to an object per second, this wouldn't stop players from getting stomped if they can't take out the attackers anyway.
The problem is, zergs can:
1) Grind faster and grind more
2) Win every single PvP encounter they have
3) Build unraidable bases
How does one prevent zergs from joining up in the first place?
maybe you should get your own friends
You're not meant for these games if you don't have a group or don't have the autism to explode someones "unraidable" fort.
I'm talking about groups that are 15-20.
maybe you should stop trying to be a solo fuck boi and team up with some people
Who gives a shit about this meme game
literally play anything else
hell even playing overwatch would be better than playing this trash
2-3 man team is not "solo"
may as well be if you're trying to go against 15-20 you fuck boi
I smell halfchan on you. Get the fuck out
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It fucks up game balance, though.
it doesn't fuck up balance you're refusing to take part in a large aspect of the game
It's not civilization, it's a bigger group of barbarians that ruin the game for the rest of the people on the server.
You can't fix something that is fundamentally shit.
no it's you thinking you'd be fine with a small group on a tiny map when in actual you just need a equal force inorder to fend them off
Get friends faggot
Holy fuck leave you autist
You wouldn't be thinking that if you had your own army, Satan. Stop being a puasy and submit, ask to join and watch as the server splits into two ever warring factions.
Interesting to note the historical parallels for that/this, actually. Take the Mongols.
They just need to fix the gunplay and the glitches
Zerging is fun you little bitch
You need an absurd amount of time and a lot of friends to actually build something worth a damn, even then, you'll just get offline raided a few days after you set up.
The only successful base I ever built was one in the snowy parts of the map that no one goes to because you freeze to death there, that stood up for 5 days. It's essentially a contest for who can hide bases the best and who can honeycomb/triple air lock their base the best, even then, the biggest groups have like 500 bricks of C4 meaning they'll just force themselves through.
Also, the average player is a complete fucking asshole and will shoot on sight any naked with a rock. There's also a lack of a low level, early game rifle, your only viable weapon are the crossbows, pipe shotguns and bows, and the first and second got nerfed to shit meaning those groups with coffee can and road sign armor will shit all over you with their AKs and bolties from a mile away and you can't do a damn thing. Melee is also worthless and 2 or 3 swings from the highest damage weapons can't kill coffee can and road sign.
Combat is retarded and is the epitome of jump spam, crouch abuse and quickscoping.
Oh, and two more things.
In Rust legacy, you could build anything anywhere, but in current rust, you can't build anything anywhere because of cupboards. Ladders are no longer allowed on claimed territory, which means that early game raiding is essentially killed. Before you could be smart and climb up to someone's base and easily blast a hole in their roof to get in, steal some shit and get out, now it's a resource grind for who has the most C4 and who can retard force their way through. It's a competition for who can grind C4 the fastest.
is this game any fun?
i played with other 3 friends and after building an house and drawing some cocks on a board, it became stale
Maybe it was because we didn't start raiding other people
no. anyone "enjoying" it only does so because they have literally nothing else in their life.
Kill Garry and steal his money.
Just bought my own server :^)
The only open world survival type game that looked like it had an appealing premise for it to operate on was Reign of kings, but they're all still shit games because they are always forever in a state of development with teams of incompetent liars designing them.
It is not a matter of making your base fortified as shit is is a matter or making it look unappealing to raid. Almost all my bases look like trap bases on the outside and last wipe my base lasted all month on official servers. The semi-auto rifle is a perfect early game and even end game weapon and as a solo player it is possible to get it within an hour of wipe if RNGesus is with you. I usually never engage anyone until i get at least a revolver (can easily be gotten within the first 30 min of wipe)
This aproaching a symptom of a much bigger problem and just wondering how to fix said symptom when there's no possible fix because that symptom is the desired outcome.
I get what you mean OP, it sucks that these types of games end up being about who can make the biggest group around and everyone else either quits or becomes a target. All the "just be smarter" posts forget that your oponent can also "be smarter" and he has more people too.
You shouldn't be trying to end the "civilizations" that show up out of them, instead you should give them something else to raid\fight against that aren't just other players because that's the fundamental problem.
The only goal is to survive against other people so anyone not in your group is a threat as dangerous as a bear and there's no "neutral" at all.
As a side effect, if you see someone walking around and he isn't in your group, you should shoot as fast as possible because either he has rocks\no armor and nothing to lose to attack you (so he definetely will to try and take your gun) or he is as well armed as you and an actual threat that can actually kill you.
If instead there are world events, NPC factions and other mechanisms that attack players, there's something more interesting to fight against. See The Forest for something similar. And as a side effect, you can scale the attacks to a player's faction so the more they are, the harder they are hit. This might seem like punishing them but it's up to just how hard the challenge is because it can also be seen as giving good chalenges to established groups.
Other effect is that random players who haven't joined a faction are not in so much danger and even have an incentive not to join factions, so hermits that travel the land and trade commodities are possible, not to mention players wouldn't waste their time and resources killing random players if they know they'll need said resources to defend against some threat.
tl;dr add a 3rd faction NPC controlled that balances conflict
The reason players zerg is that its an optimization of risk vs reward. Zerging offers the smallest risk and the greatest reward. Note that doesn't even matter if the "risk" is as tiny as possible, such as getting killed simply increases a stat that represents how many times you were killed (visual display only), with no other punishments whatsoever.
In order to defeat zerging, a game has to be built from the ground up to solve this problem.
The grinding is a very good example. Any sort of game with progression or building as a function of time, well a larger group will always be better. Or, any game where combat is everybody runs around doing things in a big clusterfuck, a larger group will always be better. Players will always try to optimize their play especially in a competitive environment, even if it means doing things that are inherently unfun, as long as there is a benefit.
Another problem is one of direct targeting and hitboxes / collision. A zerg has all the benefits of more DPS and more targets, but none of the drawbacks in real life such as getting stampeded or the back row being useless because only the front rows can really engage each other. Also in real life "zergs" (barbarian hordes) come with logistics and supply line problems, also clean water and lack of latrines that spread disease. There are many drawbacks to this strategy in irl warfare, but none of them are modeled in open world survival games, or MMOs.
So the biggest thing to prevent zerging in a game is some concept of character collision and changing how targeting works, a formation or strategy system that favors small unit cohesion, and introducing mechanics where large groups pay some natural price for existing together in a small area. Basically, you would have to build the entire game around solving this problem.
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>>>/facebook/
I agree with this. I do believe cupboards should still be a thing but it would be nice to see the return of ladders.
Well you guys got your wish, new update has ladders and twig tier as buildable inside a cupboards area of effect. Though it seems certain items like half walls and foundations can sort of interupt a non-authorized persons ability to put down twig foundations of their own so expect people to be spaming foundations around their bases.
As for the issue of zerging everything I've read against it in this thread basically sounds like "stop liking what I don't like" and I say this as a solo-player.
What I like about Rust is the tension of never being safe which is why I have never and likely will never join a larger group. I like being outgunned and having to rely on diligence and a greater per capita output of effort to succeed. Yeah if I run into a group while I'm out foraging I will probably lose but if I get away it's sweet and if I take them out it's doubly so but if I die it's my fault anyway 'cause I should have been paying closer attention to my surroundings such that I have a choice about whether to engage or just slip away before they spot me.